marcywinograd
I am a member of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP)-Santa Barbara and one of the organizers of the Thursday, 10/19/23, “Ceasefire in Gaza” street vigil that brought an estimated 150 people to the corner of Las Positas and State Street to stop looming genocide in Palestine.
I write to clear up misconceptions and address insinuations published in a previous OpEd, in which the writer suggested participants must have been imported from a distant location to defend the indefensible–Hamas massacres and kidnappings of civilians in Israel.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Sponsored by JVP-SB and the Central Coast Antiwar Coalition, the peaceful gathering brought together a diverse crowd to call on Congressman Carbajal and US Senators Padilla and Butler to sign on to congressional ceasefire resolutions, to halt the flow of US weapons for Israel’s collective punishment–a violation of international law– and to pursue a political resolution to the cycle of violence.
The protesters at the candlelight vigil included Santa Barbara city workers, parents and children from Ellwood to Carpinteria, an activist with UCSB’s Students for Justice in Palestine who spoke of Muslims targeted on campus, feeling unsafe wearing their keffiyehs; organizers in Santa Barbara’s Black community; a Santa Barbara college grad recently returned from a visit to Birzeit University in Ramallah; a man of Irish descent who knew all too well about oppression under British occupation; a Palestinian living in Santa Barbara who recalled constant interrogations as a teenager in Jerusalem; a young woman in a wheelchair who said she could not stay away; an older man with a cane who offered me a cough drop.
The only non-locals I met were a vacationing man and a woman from Boston, who told me how grateful they were to learn of a Jewish Voice for Peace chapter in Santa Barbara so they could participate in the street vigil.
Everyone I spoke to was horrified by the massacres of innocent civilians in Israel and expressed compassion for their families.
The urgency of the moment, however, the threat of retaliatory Israeli genocide, propelled Santa Barbarans to take to the busy street corner in a public display of solidarity with trapped Palestinians burying their children under bombed out rubble.
I was there for the length of the community ceasefire vigil–two hours–and was unaware of the flag-theft incident highlighted in the previous OpEd. I was aware, however, of a woman, a counter protester, repeatedly coming over to our side of the street to raise her voice at us and take pictures of protesters. It felt like she wanted to start a fight, but a fight was not to be had at the community gathering.
As a Jewish woman of conscience whose extended family was exterminated in a Nazi concentration camp, I echo the refrain of those in Jewish Voice for Peace and If Not Now who shouted, “Not in our name,” as hundreds of Jewish activists recently staged a sit-in on Capitol Hill.
Here at home, I’ll gladly sit down with those who waved Israeli flags on the other side of the street–not because I imagine for one minute they will agree with my support for equal rights in a liberated Palestine–but because I ache for peace with justice and weep for the children.
Let Palestine live!
# # #
Marcy Winograd lives in Santa Barbara, where she belongs to the local chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace and coordinates the Central Coast Antiwar Coalition.
Op-Ed’s are written by community members, not representatives of edhat. The views and opinions expressed are those of the authors.
[Do you have an opinion on something local? Share it with us at info@edhat.com.]
Thank you, Marcy! Thank you for coordinating this vigil and thank your for speaking up. This childish mentality that support for Palestinians in Gaza equals support for Hamas or is somehow anti-Semitic is just wrong. Someone commented on Edhat’s Instagram that the people at your event should be photographed and reported as terrorist supporters. That mentality is not only intellectually flawed, it’s very dangerous. I’m sorry you had to deal with that. People all over the US are being harassed for supporting the people of Gaza, sometimes losing job offers or jobs. Thank you for voicing support and concern for the thousands of innocent children who have died and for encouraging cease fire. The bombs need to stop!
Marcy thank you for sharing your perspective. This is a really complex issue and I hope you can also see the other side’s POV where during these rallies for peace, such as yours, there isn’t much of an acknowledgement about the people of Israel and the horror they’ve endured this month. Only flying Palestinian flags does kind of send a message. Why not fly both flags? Just as the people of Palestine do not reflect Hamas, the people of Israel do not reflect their corrupt government. Many Israelis have protested and marched in the street for Palestinian rights too.
Because this was a rally for Palestinians in Gaza. There are plenty, as there were that night, rallies for ONLY Israel. Read the article too, people in the Pro-Palestinian group discussed, condemned and lamented the Hamas attack. But yes, there SHOULD be a rally for ALL civilians who have suffered and will continue to suffer.
Dalgorf made a great point. When are we going to see the faces and hear the stories of the THOUSANDS of children bombed to death in Gaza over the last 2 weeks?
ANON – I understand your desire for everything being two-sided. For great, up to the minute info for BOTH sides of this conflict, check these out:
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/23/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-23-23/index.html
These aren’t OP-Eds, they’re news snippets covering every angle of this conflict as it plays out. It’s really helpful to see what’s going on.
VOICE – LOL! I knew it. I knew you’d cry about that. Problem is, once again, you’re totally off. Here’s the differences:
1) Prageru is considered EXTREME right wing biased with “LOW” factual reporting. CNN and NYT are not the equivalent. CNN being “left” with “MOSTLY FACTUAL” reporting and NYT being “left center” with “HIGH” factual reporting. To compare the 2 to Prageru is dishonest, ignorant and just plain wrong.
2) This is the most important one. The links to CNN and NYT are for factual updates. You know things like, hostages being freed, number of deaths in Hamas attack updates and number of deaths in Gaza, statements by world leaders, etc etc. Unbiased facts. The videos you tout are “explanations” with clear bias.
Cold hard facts vs. Opinionated history lessons with comments like “Israelis want to live in peace and are willing to accept a neighboring Palestinian state. And most Palestinians do not want Israel to exist. As Dennis Prager explains, this is really all you need to know.”
How about YOU go to my links and prove a single one of the updates as factually incorrect. THEN, we can talk.
Man oh man, you’re really something else. Only VOICE could think PragerU videos are on the same level of reliability as the NY Times news ticker. LOL!
Thanks, Marcy for telling it like it is. Targeting civilians is always wrong, regardless of the identity of the attacker or victim. Unfortunately for the Palestinian people, they have been targeted for ethnic cleansing, land theft, bombing, blockades, and every sort of oppression for over 75 years. Not that the Israeli or U.S. governments care, but under international law, an illegal occupying force has no right of reprisal against resistance, including armed resistance, by an occupied/subjugated/oppressed people. We call for an immediate ceasefire on both sides, and the immediate return of all captured civilians, Israeli and Palestinian, including the thousands of Palestinians that languish without any judicial rights in Israeli jails and prisons. Stop the bombing. Stop the killing. No more U.S. weapons to the Middle East. Enough.
The issue in Israel is simple.
https://www.prageru.com/video/the-middle-east-problem?fbclid=IwAR1zZ6Spri3g9o-f2xCo6SffMh63qryUt7Z_KvHIe-eWF95EivLuq9JEi-c
No, it’s not. Please find a less biased source of information.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/prageru/
Calling someone else’s source a “biased source of information” in the same thread you bring up CNN as good source is very on brand. Why don’t you watch the <5 min video Anon linked (b/c as usual you knocked the source without actually looking at the information) and explain the bias to us.
SBPOSER – So are you saying my comments about what’s happening in Gaza are wrong? What exactly are you saying (other than I’m a “monkey”)? You’ve said absolutely NOTHING of any substantive value here since this conflict began, just trolling and insulting. What are your thoughts? Do you have any? Seriously, show us one single comment out of the MANY you’ve made that has any worth to this unfolding tragedy. While people are losing their families, you’re sitting here on your privileged and worthless rump doing nothing but internet trolling. I’d be embarrassed and ashamed if I were you.
Someone using praegeru as some type of reputable source is sad and laughable. The same people cry about our education system – they should look at home first.
Anti Zionism explained:
https://www.prageru.com/video/if-you-hate-israel-youre-no-friend-of-the-jews
Let’s hear more about the suffering and genocide of the Palestinians and less about Anti-Zionism and the Holocaust. Palestine needs its own autonomy, long overdue.
As to any hopes of a cease fire, the US made it’s position loud and clear today:
“Mr. Kirby added, “A cease-fire, right now, really only benefits Hamas.”…. “It is ugly and it’s going to be messy, and innocent civilians are going to be hurt going forward,” he said. The United States, he added, had not discussed any red lines with Israel.” — https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/24/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news
Only benefits Hamas, huh? No benefit at all to the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians being bombed and starved? Nah. None at all.
I’ve never seen such willful ignorance at such high levels. Clue in – Hamas does not want a cease fire. With every casualty, the US and Israel are doing their work for them: recruiting the next generation of Hamas.
Every baby who suffocates from lack of fuel, every toddler that gets ripped apart by shrapnel and bricks, every pregnant woman forced to give birth under a rain of bombs, every father killed while trying to get his family south to “safety,” leaves behind someone who will fall prey to the lure of Hamas and their “freedom fighting.” The destruction of Gaza is playing right into the hands of Hams. Their goals require an army. What better way to recruit the next wave of hate-filled soldiers?
“Hamas,” not “Hams.”
It only benefits Hamas tactically.
Don’t worry, soon we go to war against Iran and it gets really fucked up. Quds Force trained Hamas terrorists inside of Iran. That justifies an Israeli strike against Iran which falls in line nicely to hit their uranium enrichment program and delay their development of a nuclear warhead for a couple more years.
Tactically AND recruiting wise. People need to understand the mentality of these terrorist groups. Every airstrike gives them more “victim” credibility among the people. Look at how they jumped at calling out Israel for the hospital strike (although the NY Times just released new info that counters recent claims). That was great for their image as “freedom fighters.”
I agree-basically, Israel is in a no win situation with Hamas. These guys are smart. Embedding themselves in civilian populations, refusing to even allow their own people to evacuate from active combat/target zones, etc., all intended to yield maximum civilian casualties for them.
Hamas will trade an endless supply of dead Palestinian children if it can move them to their ultimate goal of a global Islamic state. Of course, there are elements of Israeli society and government that are not far off from Hamas in terms of their desire to ethnically cleanse “greater Israel” at almost any cost.
Ultimately, IMO, Israel will invade on the ground. Netanyahu has to do it for credibility and as a warning to Hezbollah. The only real question is how long it lasts, how many die, and if Hezbollah tries to open up that second front. They need Iran’s permission for that, thus the US Navy and air power reposition and moving additional Iron Dome batteries to provide more ground to air interceptors to keep Iran’s proxies out o fate fight. Part of me hopes that Israel hits Iranian nuclear facilities pre-emptively though the risk is massive.
ALEX – I think you’re right, unfortunately. Israel will proceed with the ground invasion, which will devastate Gaza as well as take a huge toll on Israeli troops. That, in turn, will push Iran to action, even if only through Hezbollah. Before we know it, this will be an international crisis. If Israel can hit those nuke facilities, great! They pose a huge threat to the world. BUT, back to Gaza……
Israel and the US are quickly losing favor in the international community. Many on the right could care less, but that support is important. Biden needs to push a little harder on the whole “maybe could you please not violate international law” stuff. The refusal to back an almost universally requested cease fire plus unwavering support for continued siege and bombing even after over 7000 confirmed strikes, along with now naysaying the number of civilian deaths in Gaza, is painting a picture of someone who is OK with or even complicit in war crimes. It’s not a good look for the US.
Has anyone even considered what the next step is, after the total destruction of Gaza? We going to help rebuild it? Will Palestinians be allowed to remain? Will it be “new territory” for Israel? Before we support the invasion of Gaza, we should demand a plan. We all know that’s not going to happen though.
Thank you, Marcy, for your clear account.
Sadly, the ground invasion has begun it seems. After ordering Palestinians to leave the north, Israel is now flattening cities south of the river they told them to flee beyond. All communication is down in Gaza so emergency medical services are basically disabled. Low on fuel, water, food and no where to flee to avoid raining death. The children of Gaza are dying and Biden has the audacity to dispute the number of deaths.
Shame on Biden for supporting this humanitarian tragedy.
I think Biden would prefer that Israel pull back from this path, it leads nowhere good for the US but, again, what can Israel do? How do they respond to what Hamas did and continues to do, diverting every penny and bit of material aid that has gone in to Gaza for the last sixteen years to prepare for and make war? Hamas has to be destroyed and after that flood the region with aid and money to try and rebuild a sustainable society with a government that serves the Palestinian people and not Iran. Regarding the number of deaths, no one really knows, how can they? And obviously the information coming from Hamas is totally untrustworthy and is likely the information on the same topic from Israel.
What can Israel do? They can stop. Stop bombing, stop the siege, stop killing innocent civilians. Let the intel community help pinpoint Hamas leaders and launch surgical strikes. Use other methods of attacking Hamas that doesn’t include war crimes. Yeah, Hamas is imbedded, but that doesn’t mean they can destroy all of Gaza. Give the people of Gaza a chance to live. Israel’s intelligence services are second to none, other than the US. Together, they can wage a long and precise war on Hamas, but not this. This is criminal now.
Again, they will never destroy all of Hamas and even if they kill every single man, woman and child in Gaza, they won’t be safe from terrorism. This is not how you do it. It’s not easy, never will be, but that can’t stop them from doing this legally and without such blatant disregard for civilians. How are the people of Gaza now expected to recognize Israel as a peaceful neighbor after this and after the past 80 years of death and oppression? Netanyahu and his war lords are ruining Israel’s chance at living in peace with a neighboring Palestinian state just as much as Hamas is. The killing needs to stop.
The UN is now backing the death numbers, but any “info” from either side must be taken cautiously. Remember Biden lying about seeing photos of decapitated babies? Yeah, those don’t exist. This is an information war, but what he did was effectively disregard the suffering in Gaza by saying what he did about the numbers. Not ok.
No, I don’t think they can stop. If they do then they are essentially proving Iran’s mode works and if that’s the case they will export it to different regions. Hamas can not continue as the government of Gaza and provide any opportunity for peace, rebuilding or sustainability, their goals are 100% incompatible with that.
The nitpicking that you and many others spend their time and energy on is all part of the PR war and that will never lead to a solution. I believe there is a path for peace between Gaza and Israel because, if people are given the choice between leading a peaceful life with a sustainable economy and a clear future for their children, enough people will choose that rather than terrorism to make a new star possible. There are examples from around the world of people around the world who are mortal enemies and murdering each other in one generation and can be at peace in the next generation.
Obviously this is all just an opinion. Tragically there will be a massive price paid in blood to take Hamas out of the picture, hopefully the international community and the Arab states, who have NEVER cared about the Palestinian people and only use them as puppets will finally come together and work to give these people a future.
Nitpicking? Really?
Well, guess we’ll just have to disagree on the continued slaughter of civilians as a means to reach an unattainable goal. Hamas, nor any terrorist organization, will ever be completely wiped out. The cost to achieve perceived “peace” will be far too bloody. But by all means, keep bombing Gaza…..
Yes, actually–nit-picking. Trying to keep a scorecard of dead bodies and exactly how people were murdered, which is actually not possible, does nothing to create a way forward.
Listen to yourself–“unattainable goal”? What goal is unattainable? Peace? I disagree entirely. The destruction of Hamas? Yeah, to the point of making them essentially irrelevant, like for example the Nazi party in WW2. Do these ideas still exist? Yes. Are there still self proclaimed Nazis? Yes. Are they a meaningful threat? Not really. There are any number of examples of this, from ETA to Sendero Luminoso, etc..,
So, yes, both things are absolutely possible. There is a doctrine of “total war” which is applicable here. It’s the notion that, to spare future generational cycles of suffering, such as we see in Gaza, all targets are considered viable–ultimately wearing down the resolve of a population to continue to the extent that they look for any viable way to survive. The Roman Empire did this successfully. The United States did this to a lesser extent in WW2, i.e., burning hundreds of thousands of civilians to death in Germany through firebombing and the use of atomic weapons. That was exactly as many generations ago as the dispossession of the Palestinians. Now Germany and Japan are our allies and are at peace.
So, yes, it’s horrifying beyond belief. It’s awful. It’s sickening. And at the same time there is an argument to be made that, had this happened previously we would not be here now and if this happens now we (they) might not be here later.
” Listen to yourself–“unattainable goal”?” – Once again, yes. The goal of destroying terrorism is impossible without the absolute destruction and occupation of Palestinian people and their land. There will always be hate and violence and someone to organize it. No, this is no where near the same as taking out the Nazi party, that was unique to one country. Seriously? Come on, I know you can’t honestly be comparing the two. Terrorists don’t have 1 single party that controls the military of one single country, that is can physically be dismantled and destroyed. Hamas, ISIS, Hezbollah, Palestinian Jihad, and the many other anti-Israel groups out there are borderless and not centrally organized. They can morph and become interchangeable. You’d literally have to destroy (or occupy) Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Lebanon, and more to create a livable space free of the threat of terrorism. Please don’t tell me you think that’s a viable option.
Unfortunately, you seem to be OK with the murdering of civilians as a means to achieve this goal. I’m not. It’s criminal and better people than you or I will hold those on both side of this accountable.
ALEX – here is the comment you seem to be replying to. Again, not saying what you quoted me as saying. That was pretty dishonest of you.
Killing more civilians will not rid Israel of the threat of terrorism from their neighbors. It’s not only delusional to pursue that policy, it’s criminal.
That’s fair, I should have reviewed the comment again, it’s been a little while and I misrepresented it.
You said “Unfortunately you seem to be okay with murdering civilians as a means to achieve this goal.”
Here’s the thing–my saying that horrible things, (war) might be necessary now to create peace in the future does not equate with my being “okay with murdering civilians”. That’s where you miss the mark. You’re essentially saying I am unaffected, callous, disinterested in the loss of innocent human life. That could not be further from the truth and I still find that entirely offensive.
ALEX – “my saying that horrible things, (war) might be necessary now to create peace in the future does not equate with my being “okay with murdering civilians”. ”
I’m sorry, but yeah, it kind of IS the same as being ok with killing civilians. How else could it be taken? Supporting the continued bombing of Gaza as a means to create peace with terrorists in the future (again, will never happen, especially like this) is being ok with more dead civilians.
I know it’s not comfortable to accept that and I don’t really think you’re that callous or unaffected by this, but I said that for this very reason. I think you need to understand what this means. Continued destruction of Gaza, targeting and destroying buildings filled with civilians just to maybe hit a couple actual terrorists, is NOT how you achieve peace. On the contrary, this is creating a new generation of Hamas most likely and actually increasing the hate. You don’t break a cycle of violence with even more violence.
Here’s a great article you might want to check out: https://news.yahoo.com/israel-bombardment-gaza-could-potent-130040386.html
No. It is not. Your implication, again, that I am indifferent to lost innocent lives is noxious.
Beyond that, your assumptions that I don’t “understand” are condescending and uninformed. I’m confident that I have read as widely as you have on the topic. Possibly more. Don’ think you can educate me.
ALEX – the article was merely to share some information I though was interesting, you can take it how you want, as you obviously are. Not implying anything, as you’re the only one who is able to discuss this coherently here. Again, take it as you want.
Supporting the continued bombing as the only solution is to accept civilian deaths. Again, take that how you want, but that’s just what it is.
It’s really disappointing to hear you dig your heels in on the continued bombing of civilians in Gaza. You can insult me all you want, but being willing to accept even more civilian deaths for the goal of some future peace between the country that is targeting and destroying civilian infrastructure and the the surviving relatives/friends/parents of those civilians (almost half of them being children) is just not something I will agree on.
ISIS was created by our invasion of Iraq. Al-Qaeda was created from the muhajadeens we trained and then abandoned in Afghanistan. Terrorists are CREATED by the action/inaction of governments and their ideals are forged by what they (or in this case, most of the world) perceive to be humanitarian injustices. You can’t just “eliminate” all of them and assume that you’ll have peace, especially (again) while that attempt to eliminate them kills THOUSANDS of innocent civilians.
To honestly believe that the continued killing of civilians will bring peace to the region is, I’m sorry, but naïve and ignores the past.
Thanks, I am aware of the dynamics of the birth and death of terrorist movements, including the evolution of anti-Soviet Mujahadeen to Taliban, the birth of Isis as a result (in part) of the abuse of prisoners in Iraq, etc.. I understand the position that this can create terrorist movements and offshoots but without popular support, over time, these movements can be quashed if the general populace believes that they have a future.
IMO, peace is a temporary state in the human experience. As is war. These things cycle on and off and I don’t know of any region of the planet that has not included humans killing humans.
I don’t believe that I have insulted you. I think that you saying that I’m “okay with murdering civilians” is a far greater insult than to say that I find the comment offensive and noxious.
As well, I think that when you use the term “murdering of civilians” that you are misrepresenting what is happening. Murder is the intentional taking of life and you are saying that the Israeli governments’ intent is to take civilian life. I don’t think that is accurate as a matter of policy, if it were, then I believe that you would have 20x more civilian casualties easily.
In fact, in the continuum of war I think that you will see that the Israeli government, though I STRONGLY disagree with many of their policies and I DETEST Netanyahu, is in fact more conservative on the taking of civilian lives, as a matter of policy, than almost any other government fighting a war that you can point to
WW2 is often called a “just” war, and I believe it was. It also included the burning alive of hundreds of thousands of civilians (Tokyo, Dresden, etc.,) and the use of atomic weapons to end hostilities and save potentially massive numbers of US soldiers and Japanese civilians. The Japanese literally had to change their fundamental religious belief that the Emperor was a God in order to find peace, and that is what their total defeat did.
So, ultimately, I get the we disagree. I think that things will and must get a lot worse before they can get better. I am actually optimistic that the end result could be a viable Palestinian state, a curtailing of illegal Israeli settlements, and reasonable peace and security for both sides. This can’t happen with Hamas in place. I think that it can be done. My desire is that it be done with the least possible suffering for both sides.
ALEX – “I am actually optimistic that the end result could be a viable Palestinian state, a curtailing of illegal Israeli settlements, and reasonable peace and security for both sides. This can’t happen with Hamas in place.” – I agree wholeheartedly with that. I think my point is that achieving that through the continued intentional targeting of known civilian buildings and facilities is not the path forward.
This is not like WWII, which was 80 years ago. The intel tech and weapons tech have come a long way. Further, many of those bombings in WWII, including Hiroshima and Dresden, are considered by many (myself included) now to be war crimes. We have the tech now, and certainly so does Israel, to make better choices in how we fight wars and protect civilians. Just because this happened in WWII doesn’t excuse it now.
It is refreshing, Alex, to have someone to have a rational discourse with about this highly charged and very important topic. I may have been a bit snippy, but I do respect your opinion, even if it differs from mine.
We disagree but I respect your reasoning. Ultimately we hope for the same outcome, peace for people in that region.
And ALEX, I really don’t believe you are indifferent to the civilian deaths, not at all. But I do think you can accept them as a means to and end. I can’t. That’s just were we differ it seems.
Sac – You live in a country that has bombed innocents in order to preserve our way of life.
Love what you preach.
I’ve said before, you could always move to some obscure country in Europe if you really have a problem with the ugliness of war.
Or is it somehow different when your country dies the bombing?
Seriously, Alex, to compare this to WW2 is to ignore the hundreds (if not more) years of religious and deep-rooted conflict in the area. There will never be a comfortable peace in that region as there is now between Germany/Japan and the US, especially not after this.
Total war was criminal then, as it is now. The bombing needs to stop.
Alex- 100%, Well said.
Anyone think there might not have been a war(s) if Trump was president?
Only his continuing war on democracy in this country.
No, probably not. The war was building for years. This had nothing to do with Trump or Biden. What do you think Trump would have done differently? Not sure he would have been as supportive of Netanayu’s aggression in Gaza, but I doubt Hamas would have not proceeded with their attack if he were in office.
I mean, aren’t the cons all saying Biden “supported Hamas” by “giving money” to Iran? If so, why would Hamas do something that would clearly drag the US into supporting or even participating in war?
LOLOL.
Nope. Zero impact.
TDS is to strong here to acknowledge that the world saw a relative respite in armed conflicts during his presidency.
VOICE – the word “coincidence” might be a good one to look up.
Again, LOL. Nope. Trump’s policies were nothing but destabilizing because they fluctuated from inconsistent and laughable bluster to actual attempts to reduce American military and political reach around the world.
Here, I’ll boil it down for you:
Trump: “I am a real tough guy. No, really, I am so tough. I will bring you fire and fury like the world has never seen.”
Also Trump: “Weaken Nato, withdraw from treaties, kiss the ass of every tin pot dictator around and also no more foreign wars.”
Rest of the world: “Oh, this guy talks a lot of shit but he’s basically a pussy and more than that, a pussy with no coherent foreign policy–time to take advantage of American weakness!”
No, Voice you are the one suffering from TDS. The rest of the world saw a weakened, divided, distracted and disorganized USA with no balls every day that Trump was in office.
LOL. Nope.
Now bombing densely packed neighborhoods. Over 20 homes in Jabalia refugee camp was flattened recently, with children being pulled from the rubble. Approximately 73% of the over 8000 dead in Gaza in the last 3 weeks have been women, elderly and children. How many more will we be ok with until we demand a cease fire and a new plan of action for eradicating Hamas?
How is bombing densely populated apartment buildings multiple days in a row not targeting civilians? Sure, it’s easy to say, “Oh, well there was a Hamas guy there,” but does that absolve you of killing 100 non-terrorists? I hope the answer is “no.” It is nice though, to hear Biden finally speaking up for the civilians being killed like fish in a barrel. At what point does the rest of the world chime in and say STOP?
SBTONER – “Sac – You live in a country that has bombed innocents in order to preserve our way of life. Love what you preach.” –
It’s sad that that’s all you have. Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout?!!?!?! Where did I EVER say I was OK with the USA bombing civilians? Show me where.
And no, you don’t get to say, “Oh b-b-b-b-but you were silent about it” – OK when? When was the US bombing civilians in the Middle East or anywhere a topic here on Edhat? Show me the article and show me my comments that said “hey, it’s ok.” It hasn’t happened, Einstein.
It’s truly pathetic that you have to detract from this horrible situation with your mindless and unoriginal trolling. Be a better person.
Sac – I hope you never make spelling mistakes. Especially with the way the comments vertical line up here after a while.
It’s once again, very elementary if you to try to use grammatical mistakes against me in a “I’m right” type of way.
You live here and aren’t out protesting the U.S. war machine, so why pretend to give a damn what Israel does? Are you out there protesting “Pro-Palestine” or doing anything about it besides moaning online and actually bragging about your cannabis use?
You are the troll here, Mr. “I have smoked cannabis for decades.”
That statement really explains some things, like your lack of brain cells.
SBPOSER – “You are the troll here, Mr. “I have smoked cannabis for decades.” That statement really explains some things, like your lack of brain cells.”
1) I never said I “smoked” so stop lying please. Using cannabis includes CBD and CBN for chronic pain, generally in the edible and topical form, you absolute clown.
2) Teasing about cannabis use from a clown calling himself “SBSTONER”….. that’s just hilarious.
“You live here and aren’t out protesting the U.S. war machine, so why pretend to give a damn what Israel does? Are you out there protesting “Pro-Palestine””
How do you know where and what I do? I spent years of my youth fighting and protesting against the US nuclear policies and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And yes, I am opposed 100% to the US support of the genocide happening in Gaza. I’ve said it multiple times on multiple articles here. What did you do? You do nothing but troll here.
Dude, you’re comments are useless and now becoming homophobic/grotesque (“GT in my mouth,” etc) as I am pretty sure you are.
How are you even still allowed to post here with that filth? Find a better way to live your life, you pathetic troll.
ALEX – “Murder is the intentional taking of life and you are saying that the Israeli governments’ intent is to take civilian life” – then change it to “manslaughter” if that helps. We disagree, very much on this and I’m fine to leave it at that.
Sac and Alex, you guys should just exchange phone numbers already and talk your stuff out in your own. Please.
Hey Hey! There he is!
How about you try contributing something of worth to the conversation? Or, just be BASIC and complain about others having a mature discussion about a highly relevant and important topic on an online comment thread. I wonder what you’ll choose……
Yeah, I’m not responsible for your lack of self control. If you don’t like the conversation you are free to make the choice to ignore it.
B A S I C I N F O 8 0 5 – dude, was worried you weren’t coming back. Lots of missing “visitors”, glad you were able to circumvent the “New” login requirements!
Sorry this is “Off-topic”, but yeah! 🙂
Yeah, I’m not responsible for your lack of self control. If you don’t like it, don’t read it, IDGAF.
Honestly, I’m surprised and even a little disappointed there was no mention at all here of the Pro-Palestinian protest that took place in Goleta, at Raytheon, a week ago. Noozhawk had a lengthy article with photos about it.
Edhat is more community-based and Noozhawk is more traditional newsroom, they have staffed journalists/writers. Edhat relies on the community. If someone attended and has photos, I’m sure they’d post them.
Granted, but given the importance and intensity of the issue, I would have thought it would have been mentioned. Local protests of any kind are usually newsworthy even here on Edhat.
Feel free to write it up and send it in. I’m sure they’ll post it.
Besides the point, but thanks.
Case in point: https://www.edhat.com/news/citation-issued-at-dueling-state-street-protests-over-middle-east-conflict/