Why Creationism May Come Back to Our Schools
By Robert Bernstein
Eugenie Scott – Why Creationism May Come Back to Our Schools – Humanist Society of Santa Barbara talk.
Humanist Society President Judy Flattery began her introduction by noting the relevance of this issue to the Affirmations of Humanism by Paul Kurtz. Four Affirmations are relevant:
• We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
• We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
• We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
• We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
Eugenie Scott was named one of the Scientific American 10, a select group of leaders in science, politics, business, and philanthropy, who are building a better future with their ingenious approaches to solving global problems.
Scott also received the first annual Stephen Jay Gould prize from the Society for the Study of Evolution, among many other prizes and awards.
Scott was the executive director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), a nonprofit organization that seeks to keep evolution in the school curriculum, and to provide resources and accurate information about evolution.
Notably, Asteroid 249530 Eugeniescott was named for her!
Eugenie Scott began her talk noting that, while she was writing her talk, the New York Times published an article "How Montana Took a Hard Right Turn Toward Christian Nationalism".
Montana Governor Gianforte belongs to Grace Bible Church in Bozeman that excludes women from leadership roles, rejects evolution and considers homosexuality a sin. He has contributed to the Glendive Dinosaur and Fossil Museum. Which promotes the idea that the entire universe was created in its present form a few thousand years ago.
It has the second largest collection of dinosaur fossils in Montana. This fits with the Answers in Genesis (AIG) Creation Museum fake science museum in northern Kentucky. Complete with planetarium and petting zoo. AIG is also connected with the Ark Encounter replica of Noah's Ark.
AIG plans to add a "Plagues of Egypt" amusement park ride! Really.
The Institute for Creation Research (ICR) in Dallas opened in 2019. They paid cash to build their museum. Wikipedia lists 13 Creation museums. These people have money.
But not many legislatures are trying to pass Creation legislation now. One notable exception is in Arkansas with HB 1701, 2021 that allows teaching Creationism in science class.
Antievolution has gone through three phases:
Ban, Balance, Belittle
The heyday of Ban was the Scopes Trial era 1919-1927. Remember that Scopes lost and that law was on the books in Tennessee until the 1970s.
Evolution quietly slipped out of the books. The Sputnik era of the late 50s and early 60s brought money into science education. Evolution reentered the science curriculum. But Arkansas still had Scopes era laws. Susan Epperson was the plaintiff to challenge the law. She thought it would be trivial, but it went to the Supreme Court! Fortunately, she won.
"Balance" was the idea that if you taught evolution, then you should also teach some form of creationism for "balance".
The First Amendment has two clauses regarding religion: Establishment and Free Exercise. Teaching the Bible clearly violates the Establishment clause. This led in the early 60s to "Creation Science".
Creation Science offered no evidence for Creation. Instead, they used a "contrived dualism" to argue that if evolution is wrong, then Creationism must be true. It was then a matter of creating doubt about evolution. The same strategy used by the tobacco industry and the fossil fuel industry to create the illusion of doubt where the science was solid.
In the 70s-80s many laws were introduced to teach Creation Science. But the 1987 Edwards v Aguillard Supreme Court decision struck this down.
The Creation crowd came back with "Intelligent Design" (ID). But ID is just a subset of Creation Science. It argues that some things are just too complex to have formed unless some intelligence designed them. Of course, that intelligence is the God of the Bible.
ID succeeded in the 1990s – 2000s. But Kitzmiller v Dover ended its reign. The Nova program "Judgment Day" covered this notable 2005 six week trial. Scott's National Center for Science Education organization was one of the organizations on the side of the teachers, suing to end teaching ID. The Thomas More Law Center was on the other side.
Teaching bad science is not illegal. The Establishment Clause is the issue. They had to show that ID is about advocating religion. Which they did in multiple ways.
There have been no more Creation or ID lawsuits since Dover. But there is that 2021 Arkansas law.
By the mid 2000s there was a new strategy. In the 1987 Edwards case, Scalia wrote a dissent suggesting it was OK to teach evidence against evolution. Allowing the unscientific "contrived dualism" approach. The Institute for Creation Research seized on this opening. Which leads to the "Belittle" phase.
"Teach the Controversy" where there is no such controversy among actual scientists.
We may be on the precipice of a major change with the new right wing Supreme Court. Those on the right have argued that the Establishment Clause referred only to establishing a single state religion. Which gives primacy to the Free Exercise Clause.
Many decades of cases have dealt with the Establishment Clause:
School prayer. Religious displays. Funding of religion by the public in other ways. Textbooks for private schools. School buses for church schools. Curriculum content. Lemon v Kurtzman in 1971 established what came to be known as the "Lemon Test". It was devised by Justice Brennan and had three parts. A government activity in question:
1) Must have a secular purpose
2) Must have a principal or primary effect that does not advance or inhibit religion
3) Cannot foster an excessive government entanglement with religion.
Most Lemon cases deal with Entanglement.
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor noted in the case of Lynch v Donnelly that government endorsement sends a message that non-adherents to the religion are outsiders and adherents are insiders.
Creationism fails the Lemon test on multiple counts. It only needs to fail on one count.
Now we come to Kennedy v Bremerton. Bremerton is a city near Seattle. Joseph Kennedy was an assistant football coach at Bremerton High School. The work was part time and seasonal and he was not dependent on the income.
He would pray at the center of the field, at the 50-yard line, along with his students. He had been doing this for many years before the school board or the principal learned about it. It started with his watching the movie "Facing the Giants". Kennedy promised God that he would pray, win or lose.
On September 11, 2015 the principal asked him to stop. The School District tried to work with him to find another time and place. He wanted to pray publicly. The District put him on paid administrative leave. The head coach resigned, fearing being shot by people in the stands.
Kennedy sued on free speech grounds. He lost at every round. Free speech does not apply when on a job. It went to the Supreme Court. Richard Katskee of Americans United for Separation of Church and State argued against Kennedy. The Court got facts wrong. Claiming Kennedy was fired. Gorsuch claimed Kennedy's prayers were "private, personal and quiet", which was totally untrue. Notably, when Kennedy was suspended, the students had no interest in praying on their own.
Justice Sotomayor included photos of the chaotic public prayer in her dissent; almost unheard of in Supreme Court cases. She noted that overruling Lemon calls into question decades of precedent.
Gorsuch appealed to "History and Tradition". Utterly inappropriate. There were no public schools in the 1700s. And there was no evolution science then. Facts are essential for interpretation and the facts in Kennedy were ignored.
This change in the Supreme Court means that teaching Creationism in science classes may yet be approved there.
Attendees then had a chance to ask questions.
Judy Flattery asked what is to be done. Scott said that it all starts at the local school board. You have to nip it in the bud. It is not much of a problem in California as the State Legislature is unlikely to allow teaching Creationism in science classes.
Judy noted that we already have "Good News" clubs in our local schools. Scott noted that a student club that is student led is OK. Some schools have started Humanist clubs, which is one way to counter it.
It is hard to keep up, because local newspapers are dying. I will note that locally we have the Edhat News Service!
Daniel asked why there is so much money going to Creation museums. The answer: Museums really are popular. More Americans go to museums than to baseball games. Kids like dinosaurs!
Scott said it is unlikely in the US to have a national law on teaching evolution or Creationism. The US treats education as a state matter. But Scott also reminded us that she is not a lawyer!
Daniel also asked if other countries are having this battle. Scott said that the creationism/evolution controversy has indeed been "transplanted" from the US. In the 90s and 2000s people in the former Soviet Union wanted to learn English. US Christian missionaries smuggled the Creationism stuff in with teaching English.
There are strong evangelical movements growing in Brazil and the rest of Latin America.
But Putin is Russian Orthodox. This may not fit so well with these ideas of conservative Protestantism.
Judy Flattery asked about Islam. Scott noted there is no Muslim pope. Individual imams decide what are accepted beliefs, so there is much variation. Many Muslim scientists are fine with evolution. But some imams reject it because it conflicts with the Koran and Bible stories.
And she said that there is a strong anti-evolution movement in Iran. Mostly because evolution is seen as a symbol of the hated West!
As we think about these issues, I want to make the point that science matters. We are facing global threats from the Climate Crisis, running out of resources, pandemics and more.
For a democracy to face these challenges, we need people to understand basic facts about how old the Earth is, where our resources come from and how biological change and adaptation occur. Thanks to Eugenie Scott and others for fighting the good fight for keeping scientific disinformation out of our schools.
For more information about upcoming events with the Humanist Society of Santa Barbara or to become a member, please go to https://www.sbhumanists.org/
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Feb 02, 2023 07:51 PMthe earth is a floating island on the sea suspended by ropes at each cardinal point (north, south, east, and west) from the sky's vault, an arch made of rock. Before the creation of the earth, all the animals lived above the arch. The Water-Beetle went to see what was below the arch but could see nothing but water. He collected some mud from the seabed which magically grew into a huge island and became the earth.
At first, the ground was too soft to be inhabited. The Buzzard went to survey its progress; when he grew tired, his flapping wings began to hit the soft earth, creating valleys and mountains. When the earth was ready, the animals came down and set the sun under the sky arch to move east to west during the day. However, they placed the sun too close to the earth, and it was so hot that the Crayfish's skin was burnt. They adjusted the sun six more times until it was perfectly placed on the seventh try.
Plants and people came next, but no one remembers how they or the animals were created. The first people who migrated to the earth were a man and his sister. The man hit his sister with a fish and told her to have a child. Every seven days she had a new baby, until there were almost too many for the world to provide for. Thereafter, women only had one child every year.
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Feb 03, 2023 11:25 AMThank you, Edney, for these origin stories. It would be fine with me if schools spent an hour introducing students to a bunch of these stories; the Christian story could be included among them. And then they could proceed to teach the scientific version.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:38 PMthere was a great void called Ginnungagap, with one end being scorching and the other being extremely cold. In the middle, however, the ice could be melted.
One of the first creatures, Ymir, an ice giant, was formed from melting ice. As he slept, he started to sweat, and under his arms, two other giants were formed, becoming the first of the giants.
These giants would drink milk from a cow giant named Audhumbla, who also formed from melting ice. She would lick an ice block until one day, a man named Buri emerged, the first of the gods.
Odin was the grandson of this first god, and he and his brothers were bothered by the fact that the giants outnumbered them. So one day, they plotted to kill Ymir, and after an epic battle, which almost wiped out all the giants, Ymir lay dead. From his corpse:
The blood became the oceans, rivers, and lakes.
The flesh became the land.
The bones became the mountains.
The teeth were made into rocks.
The hair became the grass and trees.
The eyelashes became Midgard.
So, where did the first humans come from?
According to legend, Odin and his brothers walked along a beach and found two logs. They each gave each of the logs spirit, intelligence and senses, and they became the first humans; Askr and Embla.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:32 PMWaqa, the creator, inhabited the sky and made sure to keep his distance from earth by way of a barrier of stars. He didn’t believe in punishment, but he did believe in trickery and persuasion. He asked man to compose a coffin for him. When the coffin was complete, he trapped them inside and sent them to the flat earth. He brought about a fiery rainstorm that lasted for seven years and formed the landscape of the earth. When the earth was complete, he released man from the coffin unharmed and used his blood to create women. After a while, 30 children were produced, but the men felt their wives had given birth to far too many. As a result, Waqa took half of them and turned them into animals.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:27 PMJapanese
Standing on the bridge or stairway of heaven (known as Ama-no-hashidate , which connected heaven — Ama — to earth ), the two gods Izanami and Izanagi used a jewel encrusted spear to stir the ocean. Withdrawing the spear, salt crystallized into drops on the tip and these fell back into the ocean as islands.
The first island to be created was Onogoro-shima and the gods immediately used the island to build a house and host theirwedding ceremony . The ritual involved circling around a pillar (or in some versions the spear) with the two gods moving in opposite directions. However, during this sacred marriage ritual Izanami , the female deity , wrongly spoke first when they passed each other and as a consequence of this impiety their first child was a miscarriage and born an ugly weakling without bones. This was the god Hiruko (later Ebisu) who would become the patron of fishermen and one of the seven gods of good luck. Hiruko was abandoned by his parents and set in a basket for the sea to take it where it would.
The second child was the island of Awa but Izanami and Izanagi were still not satisfied with their offspring and they asked their parents the seven invisible gods the reason for their misfortune. Revealing that the reason was their incorrect performance of the marriage ritual, the couple repeated the ceremony, this time making sure Izanagi , the male deity , spoke first. (33)
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Feb 02, 2023 07:22 PMThe Time of the Mayas was born and had a name when the sky did not exist and the earth had not yet awoken
The days set out from the East and began to walk.
The first day took out the sky and the earth from his entrails.
The second day made the ladder by which the rain descends.
The works of the third day were the cycles of the sea and of the earth and the throng of things.
By will of the fourth day the earth and the sky tilted, and could meet.
The fifth day decided that all should work.
The first light emerged from the sixth day.
In the places where there was nothing, the seventh day put earth.
The eighth sank his hands and feet in the earth.
The ninth created the nether worlds. The tenth day assigned the nether worlds to those who have poison in the soul.
Within the sun, the eleventh day formed the stone and the tree.
It was the twelfth that made the wind. It breathed wind and called it spirit, because there was no death in him.
The thirteenth day made the earth wet and kneaded a body like ours out of mud.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:16 PMCity of SB named a street after a Deity
"The first Chumash were created on Santa Cruz Island by the Earth Goddess Hutash who fashioned them from the seeds of a magic plant. Hutash was married to the Sky Snake (the Milky Way), who could make lightning bolts with his tongue. One day, the Sky Snake decided to present a gift to the Chumash. So he sent down a bolt of lightning, which started a fire on the island grasslands below. After this, the Chumash kept fires burning in their villages, so that they could keep warm and cook their food.
In those days, the condor was a great white bird. One day, Condor was curious about a fire he saw burning in a Chumash village, and he wanted to find out what it was. So he flew low over the fire to get a better look, but he flew too close, and his feathers were scorched black except for under his wings, which he folded tight against his sides as he swooped through the flames. That is why the condor today is a black bird, with just a little white in the spots under his wings, the only part of him that did not get scorched. After Sky Snake gave the Chumash fire, they lived more comfortably than before. More children were born each year, the Chumash villages grew, and the island became crowded. The noise of all these people talking, playing and working began to annoy Hutash and kept her awake at night. So, she decided that some of the Chumash had to leave the island and move to the mainland, which in those days was uninhabited.
But how was Hutash going to move the Chumash across the sea channel to the mainland? Finally, she got the idea of making a bridge out of a long, high rainbow, which she stretched from the tallest peak on the island to a tall peak in the mountains of the mainland. Some Chumash believe the mainland peak was in the Palos Verdes Hills near Long Beach, but others would argue it was farther north in the Santa Barbara area. NO matter, perhaps there was even more than one Rainbow Bridge.
Hutash then sent the Chumash across the Rainbow Bridge to fill the whole world with people. A few stayed behind, but most started across the bridge on the long journey to the mainland. Many made it across safely, but some made the mistake of looking down to the water far, far below. Because the bridge was high and there was a thick fog swirling about, those who looked down became very dizzy and fell off the bridge into the churning waves of ocean below. Hutash felt very bad about this, and she didn't want the Chumash in the water to drown, so she turned them into dolphins. This is why the Chumash have always said that the dolphins are their brothers.
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Feb 02, 2023 11:50 AMMajor religions are just gigantic, cobbled-together, often contradictory edifices of fantasy wrapped around one good idea - the Golden Rule. Teach that, and civilization has a chance.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:12 PMI almost never hit a like or dislike on a comment.
This one--yep. Like.
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Feb 02, 2023 08:05 AMWe did fine without the pledge of allegiance for over a century, not sure why the radical extremists out there want to curtail our freedoms with this cult chanting.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:59 AMThis will probabaly get deleted; Hey, STEVE O? You can take your religious indoctrination and shove it.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:48 AMIf you want proof of evolution in humans, you only have to look to two things; the appendix and wisdom teeth.
Appendix: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378721/
Wisdom teeth: https://sciencenordic.com/anthropology-evolution-finland/evolution-will-make-our-wisdom-teeth-disappear/1431195
Here's an example of OBSERVABLE evolution in another organism (moths):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution
Again, evolution is a FACT. So whatever you religious folks need to do to rationalize it to yourself, you need to do that, STAT. Here's something to help push you along the way:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/10/28/pope-francis-backs-theory-of-evolution-says-god-is-no-wizard/
Even your big Sky Daddy's vicar on Earth agrees.....
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Feb 02, 2023 09:15 AMAnd don't forget my favorite evolutionary trait: pruney fingers. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-our-fingers-and-toes-wrinkle-during-a-bath/
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Feb 02, 2023 06:51 AMIgnorance is correct.
Science is a religion as there is no proof how humans or the earth were created. Just theories, guesses, with no tangible facts.
The issue is that both should be taught or teach nothing since both are faith based.
Religion & science don’t have to be at odds, science helps explains our world as we learn more
But science & religion in schools have been politicized for decades. Take politics out of our daily lives. Enough.
This country was founded based upon judeo Christian values & politics have been tearing that down trying to get Americans to forget their heritage & culture.
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Feb 02, 2023 06:04 PM"Show me tangible proof of he scientific explanation of life and human existence"
You don't even have the ability to ask a coherent question.
And THAT is why faith is so important for you.
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Feb 02, 2023 04:23 PMSBLETSGETALONG - how do you explain Australopithecus afarensis and the subsequent species that became more and more human like?
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Feb 02, 2023 04:19 PMYup, you still don't know the definition of faith, nor theory, nor science.
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Feb 02, 2023 04:48 PMShow me tangible proof of how life & the earth was created.
You can’t. Therefore it’s faith that scientists guesses are correct.
Believe in his or don’t but don’t pretend the s is Titus explanations of creation of life are founded in facts.
Therefore it’s faith. Some have faith that humans are all being & know everything. Which as we’ve seen from history humans are children running amuck thinking, playing god.
Others believe in Jesus & God. There are texts dating back thousands of years regarding these two.
The three dominant world religions all believe in a god & that Jesus existed & performed miracles.
But hey a human being comes along a century ago and decides that thousands of years of teachings are false.
And these humans offer no proof. Just their guesses.
Sorry, I need more than guesses to come to a final decision.
But others give their faith easily to the person on the soap box.
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Feb 02, 2023 03:48 PMShow me tangible proof of the scientific explanation of life & human existence and how the earth was created.
You can’t. It’s all theories & guesses.
If you believe in guesses it’s called faith.
Faith has been associated with religion
Therefore faith in unsubstantiated, non tangible science is therefore a form a religion.
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Feb 02, 2023 08:03 AMSBG--
Sorry but you don't seem to understand what the word "faith" means, or what "faith" even is.
Science is not faith. I can prove that gravity exists, over and over and over and over and over.
You can't prove that your god exists. Not even once. You just choose to believe it.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:00 AMYou can't have a working hypothesis in the physical sciences without tangible facts. (see archeology, paleobiology and botany, and dozens more disciplines.)
I think we could all read more about the founding fathers' beliefs. Just searching "founding fathers religious beliefs" will show the complexity -- and make clear that it's not a simple case of "they were Christian."
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Feb 02, 2023 06:59 AM"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
--John Adams
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
This from Thomas Jefferson in an April 11, 1823, letter to John Adams:
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...."
"In his longest rumination on the topic in the Federalist Papers, for instance, James Madison challenged the idea that religion in politics would lead men to “cooperate for their common good” and asserted instead that it would make them “vex and oppress each other.”"
https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/living/america-christian-nation/index.html
And give this a read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2012/09/25/was-america-founded-as-a-christian-nation/?sh=34724d364e7b
You are EMPHATICALLY wrong about the US being a Christian nation.
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Feb 02, 2023 06:42 AMReligion is Poison
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Feb 02, 2023 05:00 PMTalk about intolerance.
You live in a country that is a melting pot of cultures & many religions.
So you are against all religions and personal beliefs that do not align with yours?
But let me guess you believe in the religion of science when it comes to creation and how the earth was created despite no tangible proof. Just guesses.
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Feb 02, 2023 05:18 AMReally? We're really having this debate in 2023?!?
Evolution is a FACT; no different than the FACT that the acceleration due to gravity (on Earth) is 9.8m/s^2
"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4"; I am SICK AND TIRED of religious people trying to force their superstitious beliefs on us. Pray all you want, delude yourself, whatever. Do NOT force your fairy tales on everyone. This is ridiculous.
I get that societies go through technological and societal ebbs and flows over the ages, but lately, it's really starting to feel like Baghdad has already been sacked, and the rivers are flowing black with the ink of knowledge and truth, flushed away by the Euphrates, only to bring ignorance in its wake. And its sad....
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Feb 02, 2023 06:10 AMAmen. (Pun intended.)
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Feb 01, 2023 06:44 PMI think Creationism has an absolute ZERO percent chance of coming back into our schools. Yes, we have some relatively less educated players in the higher ranks of some school districts (which is a shame) but let’s not go crazy with this. I’ll say this - If my kid comes home with anything that sounds like teaching Creationism, we’ll be heading down real quick to the school for a showdown with the principal and then the District out there on Fairview.
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Feb 02, 2023 06:15 AMI thought tfg had an absolute ZERO percent chance of making it to the White House in 2016. I have since learned to be very careful to avoid such dismissive assumptions.
But, yeah, if my kid comes home from school with that superstitious messaging, I’ll be right there with you.
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Feb 01, 2023 07:46 PMRead the article: Gorsuch claimed Kennedy's prayers were "private, personal and quiet", which was totally untrue.
The Trump Supreme Court has made it clear that they do not care about truth or legalities. They have the power to override our rights in California.
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Feb 01, 2023 05:43 PMWhat an aweful state Florida is. I hate the freedom
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Feb 02, 2023 06:41 PMCHIP - don't forget, in Florida, your white children will never have to be sad because our ancestors built the country on racist ideology.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:41 AMOr even saying certain words!
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Feb 01, 2023 10:35 PMFlorida = Freedumb
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Feb 01, 2023 06:03 PMSBSBSBSB - what freedom? The governor bans certain topics from being taught in schools. How is that freedom?
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Feb 01, 2023 03:14 PMI'm ok with teaching controversial and/or out of mainstream ideas as long as its taught as opinionated belief in context.
Nearly every population group has a creation mysticism. I am fine with teaching creationism within that comparative context. Some of the creation stories told are quite interesting and entertaining.
It could also be taught in philosophical discussions because creationist of the strictest stripe believe everything was created in 7 human earth days, but what do we know about restrictions of time, space, and do those things apply outside our cozy little solar system.?
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Feb 02, 2023 09:39 PM4:35 @ - Not that you'll understand, but others will.
Newton came up with his laws of gravitation in the 1600s.
Einstein proved him wrong.
Did gravity cease to exist? Did Newton's laws of gravitation still apply in the everyday world?
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Feb 02, 2023 09:35 PMClimate science has temperature records going back millennia, and basic laws of physics tell you what CO2 in the atmosphere will do. Only someone who ignores facts that don't fit his political agenda would think otherwise.
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Feb 02, 2023 05:08 PMGood question SB! One of the most important parts of the scientific approach is putting things in context, and 100-200 years of measured temperature data is a very limited context. Science also requires acknowledging uncertainties, being transparent so others can duplicate results, and coming up with theories that can be proven false. After all, if a theory can’t be proven wrong it can’t be proven right either. All of these elements of the scientific process are missing from so-called “climate science” based doomsday predictions. Climate doomsday predictions are faith based, yet they are taught in public schools.
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Feb 02, 2023 04:58 PMClimate change is a no duh!
Pre ice age there were no polar ice caps, confirmed by geologists, scientists.
Today we have polar ice.
Huh, that means the earth is not as warm as it was originally.
So for 4,000,000 years the earth has been warming to get back to her old self.
Humans started tracking temperatures what a hundred years ago or so.
100 years over a 4,000,000 year period.
Why do humans think they know everything?
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Feb 02, 2023 04:35 PMSo that's a no. Figured.
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Feb 02, 2023 04:22 PM12:09
Once again demonstrating that you don't know how the scientific method works. Not that we ever had any doubt.
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Feb 02, 2023 12:09 PM@ 11:05 are you at all possible of some self reflection and acknowledge that there are several "facts" you've believed to be true over the past 5-10 years that have turned out to be not factual at all? Or do you believe you're batting 1,000?
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Feb 02, 2023 11:05 AMEveryone is entitled to have their own opinions. These supposed "free thought" fools want to pick and choose what facts are, and have their own customized set, ignoring inconvenient ones that clash with their opinions and dogma. That's complete idiocy. Just look at all the climate science and vaccine deniers such attitudes have spawned - people with no critical thinking skills whatsoever.
I love that "balanced" garbage. Like we should present the "facts" of the flat-earther types in science classes.
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Feb 02, 2023 08:56 AM100% X01660. Unfortuanly the "science you can prove on your own" you speak of died out during covid and was replaced with " The Science™ " - but you can't prove on your own, you can't see the data, and you're not allowed to question " The Science™ " because it is "settled".
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Feb 02, 2023 08:13 AMIn his day, Nicola Tesla was well educated but not encumbered by established scientific notions which gave him a freedom of perception to create his own version of science. A version that includes the entire polyphase electrical system that we still use today, exactly as we did then. Freedom of thought includes the freedom to entertain the absurd, the "misinformation" and all other possible brain storming. Educate, present all sides in a balanced fashion, and then let people form their own opinions.
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Feb 02, 2023 06:30 AMEDNEY: we know that the rules of physics apply across the observable universe because of science. Specifically a dude you may have heard of, named Einstein. See, this Einstein fella figured out this thing called general relativity. And here's the REALLY cool part; unlike religion where the experience is subjective, YOU can prove general relativity yourself! Here's how:
https://www.space.com/37018-solar-eclipse-proved-einstein-relativity-right.html
Unlike religion, if ANYONE goes through those steps, they can prove the science on their own.
I'm sick and tired of pandering to these religious people....
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Feb 01, 2023 01:52 PMIgnorance likes to metastasize.
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Feb 01, 2023 01:50 PMnice read, but no, it won't be force fed to our kids and thankfully so.
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Feb 02, 2023 07:35 PMAnd Zero has summed it up…let’s let this thread die.
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Feb 02, 2023 05:24 PMSacjon: "We're done here" Narrator: "Oh, he most certainly wasn't done".
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