Suspicious Circumstances at SBUSD Office

The NRA should be a terrorist organization, all they want to do is help people shoot children.

" logical fact based one" - lol.... you mean like how Norway and France have more mass shootings than the US? Hahahaha!

You're absolutely right Edney about properly defining the intricacies of firearms. When people who know nothing about firearms enact legislation, while knowing nothing about firearms, it prevents the proposed legislation from having the desired effect. For example, banning AR-15's would do nothing as there are many many others that are just as functional. CNN had a little video piece about the incredible damage an AR-15 does inside the body, however neglected to note it's the intentional design of the bullet to tumble after hitting a soft target causing such damage, and the same bullet can be fired out of any compatible firearm for the same effect. Facts and accuracy matter and are key to any effective legislation. Unfortunately it's all emotion because it's easy to manipulate a emotional reaction over a logical fact based one.

Sac - It is verifiable that it was the case in 2020. But that was the first time ever (well in the automobile era) and 2020 was a bit of an anomaly. So the way you wrote it seemed to read as more of a long term established fact, instead of what could more accurately be described as probably an anomaly. Again that being said though, it kind of doesn't matter. Considering how much we drive, gun deaths shouldn't be anywhere close.

Hey VOICE - another 3 innocent people gunned down today in yet another mass shooting. Still think Norway has more mass shootings than the US? How many they have in France in the past month?

DUKE - how is that not a "verifiable fact?" Just because VOICE was too lazy to look it up before his claim and assumed it was the same as before doesn't mean it's not verifiable. Heck, you verified it yourself!

Whatever you want to call it, its a semi automatic rifle. Almost every firearm sold these day are semi automatics. So it is important to be able to tell gun owners what you are after when you say "Assault Weapon" and for them to see if your legal definition would be overly broad so as to include all semi automatic platforms.
President Biden recently said he wanted to ban 9mm semi automatic handguns. Are those Assault Handguns? They have a medium high caliber round, they have a pistol grip, they are semi automatic and the magazines (large capacity) can carry 15 rounds.
The difference is the rifle has a longer rifled barrel and a buffer spring and tube to mitigate recoil.
Nobody is going to listen to you if you can't define what you are talking about except an "Assault Weapon"

Sacjon

While you are correct about verifiable facts, you must not have read the whole studies on the 2020 numbers and why guns replaced cars as the leading cause of death in children 0-17 during year 2020
Those numbers include suicides by firearm which were way up in 2020 and directly attributed to the pandemic/mental health as per the authors of the study.
Those numbers reflect children being sequestered away from school congregating on the streets with older people. The study found number of 0-17 year olds shot in drive by shootings jumped due to the pandemic and surrounding behaviors.

The NYT recently wrote an article explaining that nation wide 2 million students dropped out during the pandemic and did not return to school. That number is projected to return to normal, as is the car vs gun metric.

I'm in favor of seatbelts, carseats for child safety. Also in favor of stricter laws on who can/cannot own a weapon. For example Hunter Biden lied on his affadavit regarding a gun purchase he made. He was a drug user and an addict but chose to lie on his application (a felony). Now that we know this, he should be required to surrender any and all firearms and be permanently banned from subsequent gun ownership.
It shouldn't matter if your Dad is the President of the USA, you shouldn't own a gun after that egregious lie. There are pictures online of Hunter, smoking crack, holding a gun with his finger inside the trigger guard. I'm compassionate, he needs help, but he also should never be allowed to handle a firearm

"false claim that these things don't happen in other countries either." - never said that. I said other countries don't have this same "problem." That's clearly confusing for you. Let me explain what "problem" I'm talking about:

1. Problem that the #1 cause of death for children is GUNS.
2. Problem that, despite what your flawed study says, the US far exceeds any developed country in the # of mass shootings.
3. Problem that, despite the constant murder and tragedy, the US refuses to do anything about it.

THESE are the problems that no other country has. And now, my final question:

Do France and Norway have more mass shootings than the US?

Until you answer that, we're done here.

You are correct, in 2020, exacerbated by our pandemic response, early release of violent felons, and allowing rioters to take over cities (lookup how man gun deaths in super gun restriction Chicago this year alone) firearms did beat over motor vehicles as the leading killer of kids. 2021 data still not in, but irrelevant to your false claim that these things don't happen in other countries either. Shall I provide another link for an explanation of per capita? To claim my saying the opposite is a "lie" or "false claim" is simply your inability to argue and articulate. For example, over the past 5 years, 10 years, you would get a different answer than, to be specific, in 2020 alone, it was the leading cause. You never were one for details.

Sac - As per the various sources you guys have cited, guns were the leading cause of death for kids in 2020...but every year prior it was automobiles. So I think that's stretch to call that a "verifiable fact". Driving was way down in 2020 (especially driving with kids...no school!) and shootings were way up. So, calling that a "verifiable fact" is a stretch...but as per the studies it did sound like the gap between the #1 (automobiles) and cars was narrowing...

The point (to me at least) is the craziness that considering the amount of cars and driving we do in this country, gun deaths are even remotely close to automobile deaths (and in the most recent year were higher!). We simply have to adjust our gun laws...it's a must! As an interesting side note, it's seemingly notably how few kids died of COVID...it's essentially zero...good thing we closed all schools!!!

DUKE - this isn't about far right/left, it's about verifiable facts. Guns are the #1 cause of death in children in the US. In addition, while one study may show Norway has the most mass shootings per capita, anyone with an honest concept of reasoning knows that doesn't mean Norway (and France) have more mass shootings than the US. So, to try to downplay the horrific and UNIQUE problem the US has by hanging to the flawed study by a pro-gun group is simply disingenuous.

I agree, the extremes of both sides make it hard. But these are simple, verifiable facts.

Both sides dont care about facts or reason… it’s why we struggle to fix things… the far left and far right have decimated their parties.

VOICE - "Guns are number 2, cars are number 1" - Blatant, absolute and verifiable LIE.

"For decades, auto accidents have been the leading cause of death among children, but in 2020 guns were the No. 1 cause, researchers say" ----- https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children

"Since 2016, that gap has narrowed, and in 2020, firearm-related injuries became the leading cause of death in that age group" -----https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761

"Firearms became the leading cause of death for American children and teenagers in 2020, according to researchers who analyzed Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data" -----https://time.com/6170864/cause-of-death-children-guns/

Why do you insist on making FALSE claims as though they're "fact" and then refuse to back them up?

VOICE - So, you DO think that there are more mass shootings in Norway and France than the USA. Just WOW.

Guns are number 2, cars are number 1, but adults who don't properly secure their firearms should absolutely be prosecuted should they result in an injury or death of anyone. I posted all the stats below and linked, so I'm not sure where you going with the total vs. per capita tangent. Some reading: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/per-capita

VOICE - guns are the leading cause of death in children in the USA. Does any other country (again.... civilized, developed country) share that same statistic?

If you actually had faith in the stats in the study you keep relying on, you'd answer the question. Your refusal to answer is what I expected..... proof that your own study really doesn't say what you want it to say and you KNOW IT.

VOICE - Exactly. No other (civilized) country has this problem at this scale. AGAIN - are there are more mass shootings in France and Norway than there are in the US?

Yes or no?

DUKE - oh I know we've been on the same page on this issue (and some others I think too). I'm just trying to get VOICE to admit that he doesn't truly believe what he says his study says - that Norway and France have more mass shootings.

I've been quite adamant that Ar-15's (and the like) should be illegal, the age to buy guns should be 21, and we need to wildly restrict who can buy/have guns. So...I agree with you...and have been saying that for quite some time! Giving up rights (any) is no fun...But this is for the common good and it makes sense. This isn't masking 6 year old's at school, it actually logically makes sense.

DUKE - "giving up rights and letting the government do/take more" - Of course, I am not a fan of that either, but do you think we have a "right" to purchase AR-15s when we're 18 years old with basically no questions asked? Do we need AR-15s? I just think we don't and there's no need for anyone, regardless of age to own one.

DUKE - VOICE can answer on his own, thanks though. He has been pushing this study as his proof that the US doesn't have as many mass shootings as other countries. He can back it up.

Sac - That's kind of a silly question, as obviously size of country matters. What I think we're losing sight of though, is that mass shootings are just one of the reasons we need to change some of our gun laws. Even if it turned out France has more mass shootings than us (per capita), our murder rate is nearly 4 times that of France. Mass school shootings shock us...but people are shot and killed every single day in the US...we need to change our gun laws to limit mass shootings AND to tackle our murder rate...which is spiking again the last 3 years after being on a downward trend since the early 90's.

I think you have to throw out Norway (or throw out the one shooting) as it's an anomaly that obviously skewers the data.

I think it's appropriate to also look at the murder rate, of which ours is much higher than pretty much any/every first world country. We're at 4.96 per 100k people. By comparison Norway is at .47, Australia is at .89, France is at 1.20 and Liberia is at 3.26. Our four closest comparable countries are Cuba, Kazakhstan, Kenya and Angola...all fine and lovely spots...but come on!!!

A change is needed. It's unfortunate as I am not one to typically be in favor of giving up rights and letting the government do/take more...but a change is needed. It's time.

VOICE - there are more mass shootings in France and Norway than there are in the US? Yes or no?

AGAIN- so you are going to sit there an claim, with a straight face, there are more mass shootings in France and Norway than there are in the US? Yes or no?

Per capita doesn't matter here. You're flat out admitting that the stats may be true, but they don't say what you think they say. Norway had ONE mass shooting (77 killed) between 2009 and 2015 and they rank #1. Do you seriously not see the flaw in using that stat to say they have the highest rate of mass shootings? Just answer, yes or no.

Two+ years discussing covid stats and measures and you still don't know what per capita means....

VOICE - still waiting...... are going to sit there an claim, with a straight face, there are more mass shootings in France and Norway than there are in the US? Yes or no?

What 11:44 said.

You two are insufferable sometimes

"Snopes waived bye to balanced fact checking years ago" - yet you cling desperately to the study by "Crime Prevention Research Center (CPRC), a pro-gun rights nonprofit run by economist John Lott." LOL...... classic.

VOICE - so you are going to sit there an claim, with a straight face, there are more mass shootings in France and Norway than there are in the US? Yes or no?

Snopes actually rates that as a "mixture" and not what the link you provided says, "Our conclusion is that this is accurate based on the CPRC’s definition of a mass shooting..." and then snopes goes on to add a lot of but this but that to match their bias. Snopes waived bye to balanced fact checking years ago, and it's actual usefulness never expanded beyond double checking weird things sent through email like the Nigerian prince.

Alex, in many cities the police were not able to respond if called. That is not some far-flung low-probability event like a meteor, that actually happened. Large earthquakes have occurred in our lifetime and will again. We are not invincible, it only takes a day or two without food before chaos ensues. And my question about "what is a assualt weapon/rifle" is very on point to exactly what we're proposing to ban, specifics and details matter! Prior "assault weapon" ban was based largely on cosmetic rather than functional features. Many erroneously believe an "assault rifle/weapon" is fully automatic.

That same study acknowledges the stats are disputed.... nice try though.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-states-lower-death-shootings/

VOICE - "civilized country" - that means not third world dictatorships.

Also, we've already discussed the flaws in that world population review report. If you are really going to say there are more mass shootings in other civilized/developed/whatever you want to call them countries, then we have nothing to discuss. You are the problem, not the victims' lack of AR-15s.

Also, I love when the gun cultists dismiss the entire issue when someone uses a piece of inaccurate technology. We all know what "assault weapon" or "assault rifle" refers to in the context of the discussion.

Get over the ridiculous nitpicking.

There are limits on firearm ownership in this country, that's already established. The question is where to draw the line. I have no problem targeting weapons that are the go to for mass murderers. Let's make it just a little more difficult for them to go about their killing sprees.

Yeah, VOR, also a meteor might hit. Let's all buy anti-meteor technology which unfortunately can be used to also murder innocent people in huge numbers.

The whole "civil war", "breakdown of civilization", "overthrow our own government" chain of arguments from the gun cultists is laughable.

Average (Mean) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015):
Norway — 1.888
Serbia — 0.381
France — 0.347
Macedonia — 0.337
Albania — 0.206
Slovakia — 0.185
Switzerland — 0.142
Finland — 0.132
Belgium — 0.128
Czech Republic — 0.123
United States — 0.089
Austria — 0.068
Netherlands — 0.051
Canada — 0.032
England — 0.027
Germany — 0.023
Russia — 0.012
Italy — 0.009

Why do you keep thinking no other country has this problem? Over 50 people were just killed two days ago in a mass shooting at a church in Africa. 20 in March in a mass shooting in Mexico. Russia last fall. Then there is is the Middle East.... Please educate yourself beyond the carefully scripted "information" spoon fed to you by the MSM.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3289010

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

"which one is a band-aid and which one is a solution" - you assume any mental health issues could have been cured. That's fallacious.

If he had to be 21, these kids would be alive. Who knows what would have happened three years from now.

Answer us this, then I'm done. Still dry heaving over your victim blaming. Why does NO OTHER COUNTRY have this problem? Is America the only civilized country with mental health issues?