Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining? title=
Photo by John Palminteri / KEYT News
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By an edhat reader

The state and local COVID-19 guidance dictate restaurants are only able to serve delivery and takeout meals until the lockdown is lifted. I've seen several restaurants downtown and in Montecito serving outdoor diners, and in one case indoor diners. What's going to happen to these businesses if they continue to rebuff the rules?

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SBTownie Jan 11, 2021 02:43 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Indoor diners? Wow. I understand the impossible situation restaurants have been placed in. Where is the government to aid businesses now? But having indoor diners during our COVID peak just straight up says, "We don't care at all." They should have their operating license suspended.

Voice of Reason Jan 11, 2021 02:57 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Contact tracing in New York showed only 1.4% of the "spread" came from restaurants with indoor operations. If the government wants to shut down outdoor dining in an (miss-guided) attempt to keep people from gathering they should have compensated the restaurants, by not doing so the state straight up says "We don't care at all". The sooner the "woke" public and "pajama class" realize liberal CA dumped the burden of the pandemic on the backs of the lower/working class and small businesses the sooner we'll be able to see the error in our ways and start taking a more common sense approach.

Ahchooo Jan 11, 2021 03:46 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Even if your stats are accurate, they surely don’t take into account the new, more contagious variants. But I totally agree that if the government shuts down an industry they/we need to compensate them somehow. What is the pajama class?

PitMix Jan 11, 2021 04:19 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Nice misleading number from data published by the RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, Voice. "The figure (1.4%) places the industry as the fifth-largest contributor to spreading COVID-19 in the state, following education employees (1.5 percent), higher-education students (2.02 percent), and healthcare delivery (7.81 percent). " Largest is private households and social gatherings. But you have to go out and get infected to bring it back to your house and gatherings, right? So restaurants are right up there as a cause.
https://ny.eater.com/2020/12/11/22169841/restaurants-and-bars-coronavirus-spread-data-new-york

DBD Jan 11, 2021 05:30 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Pit, so the 1.4% of of restaurant infections are responsible for the 87% of infections not listed out in your stats? I don't quite buy that math.

Thomas John Jan 11, 2021 06:08 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

VOR, I'm confused by your rants. Do you want larger government involvement in the pandemic? Or are you just gripping about everything?

420722 Jan 11, 2021 06:18 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

My best guess on what the pajama class is: those who have been brainwashed into thinking we must continue to crush small businesses in the name of science so said pajama class can feel safe and healthy while they work from home in pajamas on their office couches. The “in the name of science” people are starting to sound an awful lot like the religious folk they despise so much.

jak Jan 12, 2021 08:23 AM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

V O R, they’ll be slow to realize it and even slower to acknowledge it. And it is unlikely that they will ever do anything effective about it.

a-1610505925 Jan 12, 2021 06:45 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

, I easily found these compelling recent studies on the risk of outdoor activities, and these form the basis for Gov. Newsom’s and other decisions to temporarily close outdoor dining to reduce the horrific circumstances now facing patients unable to get an ICU bed:
The first is from the University of Texas (USTA), and the others from other respected, regional medical research facilities. I just excerpted the relevant passages of those after the USTA study, so that the reading load is not onerous. Before you publish further, knee-jerk pieces on how there’s “no evidence” of outdoor transmission, inform yourself!

Landmark case study finds coronavirus easily transmitted in ideal outdoor conditions

SEPTEMBER 29, 2020 — Recently published research spearheaded by UTSA finds that outdoor areas may not be as safe as first thought to protect against the coronavirus. The study was conducted by Kiran Bhaganagar, associate professor of mechanical engineering. To develop her findings, Bhaganagar utilized data available from a United States COVID-19 hot spot—New York City.
According to Bhaganagar, this is the first study to measure spread of coronavirus in outdoor conditions. There is enough evidence that aerosols spread the virus indoors. To conduct her research, Bhaganagar obtained detailed meteorological fields to create highly accurate models that show likely spread of the virus under various weather patterns in New York City from March through April 2020.

“This work is further evidence that outdoor air cannot dilute the virus particles.”

Using computer modeling, she created a real-time, high-fidelity simulation of a virus-filled cough as it was released into the atmosphere from an infected person. As the person coughs or sneezes, respiratory droplets that contain infectious particles are released into the air. The simulations found that combinations of certain weather conditions favor the spread of the virus.
Bhaganagar discovered windy conditions did little to spread the coronavirus droplets; in fact, that weather condition actually caused the aerosol droplets to disperse faster.
Instead, the testing showed that the combination of warmer or moderately cold air temperatures, with low wind speed and weak turbulence, increases the amount of time the virus can be airborne before getting dispersed in the air—up to 30 minutes in many cases. In low wind conditions, Bhaganagar discovered coronavirus aerosol particles can spread from 1 to 2 kilometers, or a little over a mile.

Simulating Viral Spread

While many restaurant owners are chafing at the tighter restrictions on their businesses, some public health experts say the restrictions are necessary to rein in the spread of the virus.
“In the current situation, we need to pull all stops,” said Karin Michels, ScD, PhD, professor and chair of the department of epidemiology at UCLA Fielding School of Public Health.
She pointed out that the second wave of COVID-19 is much bigger than the first.
“Outdoor dining still allows for people to cluster and come in much too close contact; 6 feet distance between individuals cannot be maintained,” she said. “Therefore, it is sensible to close outdoor dining areas.”
Outdoor dining is safer than indoor, but still risky
Throughout the summer, when the number of COVID-19 cases was waning, many restaurants had been able to reopen by creating outdoor seating areas, and requiring mask wearing and physical distancing.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)Trusted Source, taking no precautions would be the riskiest move for restaurants.
Indoor seating with tables spaced 6 feet apart or outdoor seating with no spacing is a somewhat better arrangement.
Outdoor seating with at least 6 feet between tables, as well as drive-thru, delivery, takeout, and curbside pickup services are even safer.
The safest option is to offer only drive-thu, delivery, takeout, and curbside pickup.
So, while outdoor dining is better than indoor, it’s not completely without risk.
“There is an increased risk that comes with dining in restaurants, whether indoors or outdoors,” said Brian Labus, PhD, MPH, an assistant professor in the School of Public Health at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
“People are spending an extended period of time in close contact with other people, and they have to take their masks off to eat and drink,” he said.
Sharona Hoffman, JD, LLM, a professor at Case Western Reserve University’s schools of law and medicine and the co-director of their Law-Medicine Center, pointed out that outdoor dining also brings certain risks for restaurant employees.
Even though employees will be wearing masks, restaurant patrons won’t be doing so at all times, she said.
She added that when employees have to interact with patrons in close proximity, they’re at greater risk of contracting the virus.
“Moreover, cooks presumably work indoors, and waiters have to go indoors frequently to pick up food and drinks,” she said. “They interact with other employees when they do so.”

Professor Baker says the main reason for writing this paper was to summarize what has been learned in New Zealand and Australia with COVID 19 elimination and to share these lessons with countries struggling with the pandemic.
"Over the course of this year, we have been in regular contact with overseas colleagues, particularly in the UK, who are advocating for their governments to take an elimination or 'zero COVID' approach. The emergence of an apparently more infectious virus variant is just another reason to eliminate this infection."
Conditions favoring successful elimination include informed input from scientists, political commitment, sufficient public health infrastructure, public engagement and trust, and a safety net to support vulnerable populations.
Professor Wilson says one of the perceived barriers to applying a vigorous response, such as elimination, to the COVID 19 pandemic, is the belief that this might sacrifice the economy and ultimately result in more hardship and negative health effects.
"Our preliminary analysis suggests that the opposite is true. Countries following an elimination strategy—notably China, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand—have suffered less economically than countries with suppression goals. Our analysis was based on gross domestic product (GDP) projections for all of 2020 from the International Monetary Fund."
International tourism, for example, is substantially reduced, regardless of individual countries having border control restrictions, Professor Wilson says.
"Iceland reopened to tourism, but the demand remained low, imported cases of COVID 19 increased and the net effect was a larger decline in GDP than was seen in New Zealand."
The introduction of effective COVID 19 vaccines is also likely to further facilitate elimination, the researchers say.

a-1610506221 Jan 12, 2021 06:50 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

6:45 PM : Excellent information from authoritative sources debunking the superspreaders of false information here.

a-1610526764 Jan 13, 2021 12:32 AM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

I assume it's the same as "sweat pant" and "lounge wear" class. It's the well-off to rich who have jobs they can perform from home. Retired people too. Those who can have groceries delivered; those who can avoid ever going out if they choose to live that way. I'm one of them, and I'm very grateful for that. I don't use services that underpay workers, I pay my shopper very well. I don't get take-out food very often but I refuse to use a delivery service that rips off restaurants.

sacjon Jan 11, 2021 03:07 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

What should happen is they lose their licenses. What will happen? Doesn't seem to be much in the way of discipline, so officially probably nothing. But, please name the restaurant serving indoors so we can all be sure to avoid that business and anyone who'd been there recently. Let the public make their own decision on whether we want to support businesses that not only flaunt the rules the rest of us must follow, but actively put people and their staff in harm's way.

Voice of Reason Jan 11, 2021 03:15 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

As the government shouldn't be in the businesses of arbitrarily closing down business sectors that have proven they can operate safely, they should all open up, with covid precautions in place, and it will be up to the patrons if they want to eat inside, eat outside, get food to go, or simply not patron the business.

MountainMan4865 Jan 11, 2021 03:19 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Before the torches and pitchforks come out, there should be verification that the OP saw what they think they saw. This happened a few weeks ago in Solvang - https://newspress.com/restaurant-owner-cited-for-dining-in-own-restaurant/

SBTownie Jan 11, 2021 03:32 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Yeah, Mountain is right. There is also the issue of staff meals, as anyone who has worked in a restaurant would know. I did, and even I kind of forgot about this. Good point, though.

a-1610408098 Jan 11, 2021 03:34 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Gee, if only there existed a non- internet business that could operate safely in a pandemic environment.

sacjon Jan 11, 2021 03:36 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

VOR - Indoor operations have not been proven safe. Outdoor, I can agree on that, but indoor still poses a risk, especially when our numbers are breaking records almost every day now. Once again, you can't just go "live free" running around spreading the virus and expect the at-risk and elderly to lock themselves up for months without any groceries, medicine, doctor appointments or other necessary services.

Voice of Reason Jan 11, 2021 03:44 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Sac, you're correct, if you ignore the data the New York public health put out, Florida (who is fully open and has lower daily's cases per capita than us for months now), multiple other states, the WHO, and several other countries around the world. I never mentioned a free for all, I clearly said - with covid precautions in place.

sacjon Jan 11, 2021 03:59 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

VOR - did that data say it's safe to eat in indoor restaurants with others around? If so, I'll look at it. Mind you, I agree that, with far lower numbers and proper distancing and masks, eating indoors would be OK. However, right now, in this point in time, can you honestly say it's totally safe? We're getting close to 1000 new cases a day in our county (3000 today in Ventura). Should we really be eating out at all right now? I don't think so.

PitMix Jan 11, 2021 04:22 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

VO?, why do you keep posting misinformation? Shouldn't you be on Parler? "But wait! Isn’t California much bigger than Florida? Indeed. California has nearly 40 million residents; Florida, about 22 million. Control for the difference and the picture changes. Florida has more cases per 100,000 residents. More deaths, too."
https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/12/is-florida-better-than-california-at-containing-the-coronavirus-analysis/

Voice of Reason Jan 11, 2021 04:56 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Pit, I don't think you know what "per capita" means because you keep going back to "California is much bigger than Florida"? Sac, correct, with distancing and other basic precautions, I'd have to see their operation to determine whether or not I felt safe eating indoors at this time. I always preferred outside even before covid, eating outside year round is one of the many reasons I love SB. And FYI, nothing is "totally safe", that is simply unattainable and has never been a prerequisite for anything (even vaccines!).

GeneralTree Jan 11, 2021 05:10 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Pit - VOR floats that florida number every day even though he knows full well his argument is full of $&*@

Sbrysa Jan 11, 2021 04:56 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Hi I just want to caution ppl that what u think you see you may be misinterpreting. For example if you saw someone in the reception of a salon or spa, you may automatically think OMG!!! They’re open they need to be reported! What what you don’t understand is that spas and salons CAN LEGALLY sell retail. Stop and think or maybe ASK the owner what’s going on so their can explain to you. What if the ppl eating you saw was the owners family that they live with eating a quick snack in between doing to go orders. Or are workers not entitled to a lunch break to eat outside on the patio in between making your Togo order? Or do u think a worker should not be entitled to their 30 min lunch break on a 8 hour shift or god forbid a double shift. Please think bc your misinterpretation could lead to wildly unfortunate circumstances and a huge headache and fines for an owner bc you thought you saw something but weren’t positive the circumstances.

Voice of Reason Jan 11, 2021 05:03 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Can someone please explain to me how CA has been having an insane spike in cases with no indoor dining for 6 months, no outdoor dining in nearly two months, while FL (among other states) has had unrestricted indoor dinning since end of September and their cases (PER CAPITA!) have been significantly less than ours since they opened?

Voice of Reason Jan 11, 2021 09:31 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

You're reading my post wrong, intentionally. "since end of September" when their restrictions ceased. I will give everyone here a link to the CDC:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days Actually, California just passed Florida in total cases/100k. Unfortunately deaths usually follow. How many excuses are left before we admit we took the wrong path in CA? That we're on the wrong path. Even Cuomo now wants things open in a safe manner. We've incurred such a great cost for no gain.

Seabird Jan 11, 2021 05:50 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Many restaurants and bars (the ones that offer to-go cocktails) have outdoor areas that were previously dedicated to outdoor dining. A lot of the patrons openly consume their food and drink in those parklets and adjacent parking lots. That is their choice, and these businesses can't - and won't - tell their loyal clients to move along, especially when many of the parking lots are considered "private property" and the business owners have already removed chairs, put up yellow tape, etc. on the parklets. The public will do what they want to do.

a-1610416516 Jan 11, 2021 05:55 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

The Palm's photo shows D'Angelo bakery. They're serving people outdoors for sure (unsure about indoor). Same with Joe's, Tre Lune, and Lucky's. All of those have the same owner though. Wouldn't be surprised if more restaurants follow suit.

SBsurferlife Jan 11, 2021 05:56 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

For the same dude who keep saying "but outdoor dining is fine! Look at this Florida numbers," it's not about preventing people from gathering. Too many people were having meals or coffee with people outside their home and chewing and coughing and spitting and all that jazz, thus the virus spreads. Shutting down dining is a hope to curb gatherings.

420722 Jan 11, 2021 05:58 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

I have no idea where you people are eating. I get takeout a several times a week during this second dining ban and have yet to see people eating outdoors, employees not wearing mask or letting customers eat inside, they want to keep their jobs and health too. OP sounds like the people that keep saying people aren’t wearing mask in the stores and I’m like where? What store? Why are you so miserable!?

420722 Jan 11, 2021 06:31 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

6:02 they have signs in a window voicing their frustration and rightfully so. Where do you see people dining in this picture? Are we really going to stoop so low as to take photos of people eating a sandwich outside or by their car? Are we going back to days where people were taking drives to the beach to take photos of mask free criminals walking in the sand? Will edhat seriously post theses photos? Oh my! This country will never heal under the current standards.

SBsurferlife Jan 11, 2021 06:36 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Normally, nah I'd leave it to Mrs Kravitz. But since one of those yahoos eating with their bros outside could potentially kill my parents, yea.. I'm going to call them out.

ChemicalSuperFreak Jan 11, 2021 09:36 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

420722: "Will edhat seriously post theses photos?" I seriously wish they would, because it's irresponsible to publish this reader's allegations without any proof whatsoever. Palminteri's photo of signs in a store window is not proof of anything, apart from local businesses struggling under the shutdown.

RHS Jan 11, 2021 06:14 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

No one will do anything to enforce the obvious safety rules because of fear of things like what happened in DC. These people are insane. The only value they have is their own profit. Lucky's must have a huge profit and it must have created a huge reserve (i.e., bank account for the owner). If the concern is for the employees I am absolutely certain that Lucky could cover their problems for the duration and not suffer.

semag Jan 11, 2021 06:41 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Good for these businesses.

It makes sense for people to go somewhere that is cleaned and sanitized as opposed to just hanging out together a few feet farther or in the parking lot.

I mean obviously the vaccine won’t be at reasonable levels in the community this year, so people should push for their freedoms.

Outdoor dining should 100% be allowed, Gavin new some should be recalled, and all the scared crybabies should stay inside.

a-1610430636 Jan 11, 2021 09:50 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

The Gym next to Turnpike Vons was packed on Friday night. Pretty unfair that they are open and restaurants aren’t. It looks no different than usual around town with the exception of closed restaurants or take out only. Nearly everything else is open. This makes no sense.

ChillinGrillin Jan 11, 2021 11:48 PM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

I just want to point out what a great, fantastic, a lot of people are even saying phenomenal job the federal government is doing. We don't pay the highest defense and golf trip costs for discount service and this thing was in the bag by Easter. It just went away with the light and the disinfectant and Windex and thoughts and prayers. Phenomenal! But the deep state Muslim Communists want to take away your Lucky's and croissants. Sad! Trial by Combat!

Crystalandmaui Jan 12, 2021 07:33 AM
Restaurants Opening Outdoor Dining?

Outside dinning was going pretty well, I saw more tables outside with people then I ever saw inside.
Santa Barbara was the place to travel to again. So all the tourists were here, but the people Here from Santa Barbara kept saying restrict outside residents , the tourists are the ones bringing the covid here. Well those were obviously the ones also keeping the restaurants alive and the retail.
I did see the restaurant’s over crowding their spaces , people were not 6 feet apart. Your not wearing a mask to eat or drink. And food handlers are not disinfecting their hands or the condiments touched by everyone. You do not know till 3 days later if you were exposed by someone. Good luck tracking it down and if you do then what? I drove around town Saturday night, it was sad to see all restaurants closed and a once very busy town with happy people no longer here. Yes the retail stores were open this time but that was it. It was very dismal, and I do have to wonder how can any business survive this? Wow this is truly the worst thing that has happened to the USA and the world. This is a war . And people just don’t know how to handle it because it’s invisible at first. So how do you cope? We never had a Germ warfare war.
We don’t know how to accept it, fix it, or believe it. Now we just want to fight with each other. This is just the second year, it’s not over. Maybe 3 years to make any head way . This is crazy.
Most of us don’t know how long a recovery after a war takes.
I will keep pushing along with hope and my mask and sanitizing wipes as long as it takes.

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