Vigil for Roe Held at Santa Barbara County Courthouse

"Roe was also clear legal activism with barely a thin thread of constitutional validity"

This is false. You "see" it because you don't read any legal analysis, or only the legal analysis that supports your prior belief.

Possibly good points for discussion. But they fall to extreme politicism of the court, such as McConnell preventing Obama from even nominating a SC justice. Not to mention Republican manipulation of voting, and gerrymandering in many states.

@Chip - and Reagan wouldn't be a Republican today.

11:28 (Voice why you hiding?) - are you seriously saying that now, after overturning Roe v. Wade, more democrats are going to switch to the side of the aisle that encouraged and allowed this travesty against women's rights? LOL yeah no.

Keep telling yourself that's it and you're going to be rather surprised in a few months.

CHIP - "well-educated swing voters who turned against Trump’s Republican Party in recent years appear to be swinging back" - SWING voters, not long-time democrats. Yeah, TONS of republicans voted democrat just to get rid of Trump. Now they're switching back. No big deal.

Here is an interesting article about the growing trend of displaced democratic voters transitioning to a new party. As the list of people who no longer have a place in the Democratic Party continues to grow, I suspect this trend will continue.

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-biden-covid-health-presidential-e50db07385831e67f866ec45402be8b9

I get it Lacey, there is no place for Catholics in the modern Democratic Party. JFK certainly would not be a Democrat if he were alive today, things have changed. I’ll be curious to see who the democrats boot next.

How was church and state violated?

@Marcelk "And conversely, the latter advocates must acknowledge that the former are committed to the intrinsic equal dignity of every human being, born and unborn."

Sure they are, like migrants, migrant children, poor people, homeless people. Dignity, sure...

"And conversely, the latter advocates must acknowledge that the former are committed to the intrinsic equal dignity of every human being, born and unborn."

I won't acknowledge that because it's patently untrue. Right wingers are sociopaths; they don't give a fig about "intrinsic equal dignity"; for them abortion is simply a political hammer.

"When we characterize their arguments, we must do so accurately and in their strongest form"

Something that you are famous here for doing the opposite of.

Where can there be common ground in this situation that depends upon TIMELINESS?
And consumes one party's future?!

@Voice. I, too, appreciated Snead's writing there (and I'm not usually a fan).

I agree especially with helping righties understand that pro-choice folks like me are "desperate to defend women's bodily autonomy and secure (women's) equal position in the economic and social life of our nation."

I don't upvote or downvote - I see no point in it. The software lacks features.

"the abortion process itself is violent, the pain that could be experienced by the baby on/about the 20th week definitely adds to this violent act of murder."

This is a lie, maggot.

"Would you agree the abortion of a defenseless unborn child is murder?" -- it's not murder and it's not a child, you lying maggot.

"What IS abortion then, if not to control birth?" -- It takes great effort to be THIS ignorant and dishonest, maggot.

"What "violence against women" are you talking about?" ... "but abortion for birth control, because your lazy is disgusting" -- your misogyny is what is disgusting. Men are at least as likely to coerce women into having abortions ... or often girls, who they coerce and connive into having sex.

Great points Letmego. Will a woman face involuntary manslaughter charges if her pregnancy is ectopic? Or if a severe heart defect rends it unviable?

Further. Since the court now considers this a person, will women be able to insure their fetus? Will they be able to receive child support from the date of conception?

Doulie, LOL, way out in left field--false, you have extremists on the right who not only want to outlaw any chemical or surgical process for abortion post conception, i.e., post egg is fertilized, but you also have extremists who want to outlaw contraception. Be honest, I you think the extremists will stop at this right being stripped, you are either deluded or you are on their mission.

Blastocyte cells start growing, five or six days after sperm-meets-egg. Dividing blastodyte cells become an embroyo 10 - 12 weeks later, then a fetus, thenmust become a VIABLE entity that can survive outside the womb before it can be called a baby. Two start the proces but only one carries it, births it and often, is the only one responsible for its care. Women don't rape men; politicians & churches don't feed, clothe, shelter and provide care for babies or children unless they create and support ophanages.

Let's be more clear, talking to "the wall". Many women DO get pregnant on birth control. "Don't want to get pregnant, use BC." Well...duh? However, we still deserve the right to bodily autonomy, full stop. We don't even force dead people to give up their organs to save a living, breathing person.

Abortion is not murder, it is the ending of a pregnancy. There is not a "baby", it is a fetus. It is not a person, it is possibly a future person. There are many many reasons why it is not a "baby", and spontaneous abortions are a thing (as are ectopic pregnancies, severe fetal abnormalities). All of these are things that most reasonable people would consider LEGITIMATE REASONS to end a pregnancy.

But in the end, it DOES NOT MATTER what YOU think is a legitimate reason. It is MY BODY and MY UTERUS. Nobody has a right to use my body without my permission.

9:30am (probably voice) - Unions aren't allowed to donate to campaigns. Universities provide far more than churches to our society so their tax exempt status is not really comparable to churches.

"Churches have become political organizations - promoting candidates and donating to campaigns. That tax free status for those churches that become political needs to go by the wayside. " - sound a lot like unions, and universities. Remove the tax free status for them too and I think you got a deal.

Observer, these are certainly not questions for politicians! Especially those who are ignorant about basic sexuality and biology.

Churches have become political organizations - promoting candidates and donating to campaigns. That tax free status for those churches that become political needs to go by the wayside. These smarmy religious evangelicals that have been on TV this weekend defending the ruling have woken a sleeping giant. We're coming for your religious control next.

3:25 - Like you?

The way some of these extremists define life, it would include cancerous tumors.

Define life. What is it? When does it start? When is an embryo, then a fetus, then a baby viable outside the womb? When are those words applied? What is the indicator that life or death actually exists? Cite the science and the facts. Otherwise, until you clarify these facts, you're just another old man with an opinion about something that he knows nothing about...

@Doulie - That's your opinion. Others have different opinions. Ultimately if it's not your body, it's none of your business.

Alex - My comment to Lacey is practical and reasonable asking if they considered the abortion of a defenseless and unborn child murder. IMO the abortion process itself is violent, the pain that could be experienced by the baby on/about the 20th week definitely adds to this violent act of murder. You're way out in left field asking about "masturbation" and "future baby."

Doulie, stop being such an extremist. Start looking at things in a practical and rational way. Is a chemical abortion of a 32 cell blastosis violence inflicted upon a baby? Is you masturbating and not using the sperm for their purpose, to create a future baby, violence inflicted upon a baby? Of course not.

General - I'm not defending the molesters of any religion, but, how are these acts "murderous?" Would you agree the abortion of a defenseless unborn child is murder?

LACEY - What do you have to say about the "violence" inflicted on a baby during the abortion process?

"These "poor women" can use FREE birth control instead of abortion. " Clarence Thomas wrote in his argument overturning Roe that the very case that allows birth control should be overturned. The GOP is a terrorist organization on the level of the Taliban. They will be stopped.

OGSB - women and girls in many states will be forced to carry pregnancies to full term in situations of rape and incest. How is that not violence against women?

8:37- I didn't suggest that "women as a whole" use abortion as birth control. Please read. I agree that "Getting a medical procedure is a thought-out process between a woman and her doctor" and I have no issue. No...I'm not "referring to actual birth control pills as abortion". Where did you get that? My point is, that there are many easy ways to prevent the vast majority of pregnancies. If you don't want to get pregnant and want to have sex, please use one! Don't use abortion.
Signed, The Wall.

Oof, it's like debating a wall. You stated that "but abortion for birth control, because your lazy is disgusting." And I stated, that's not a thing. There's no data to suggest that women as a whole use abortion as a birth control. Getting a medical procedure is a thought-out process between a woman and her doctor. Unless of course you're referring to actual birth control pills as abortion and, well, if that's the case then I can't engage with you any further.

7:57- What IS abortion then, if not to control birth? Murder?

"abortion for birth control" isn't a thing.

7:31- What are you talking about? anecdotes? Please explain.

@og - that's not a thing. And no, a few anecdotes from someone's cousin's, sister's, babsysitter doesn't count. The data does not support this insulting claim.

Lacey- I'm NOT Catholic, but... What "violence against women" are you talking about? Not being able to kill your baby? These "poor women" can use FREE birth control instead of abortion. I'm all for women, not the government, doing what they want and support RvW, but abortion for birth control, because your lazy is disgusting.

The murderous savage Catholic Church - responsible for molesting hundreds of thousands of children in our country and millions around the world - must be taxed.

Like Chip cares about Latino women .....

Lacey, looking towards the upcoming midterm election you should consider that Latinos are, or perhaps were, a cornerstone of the democratic voting base. Most Latinos are catholic. Just sayin...