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Las Positas and Modoc Right
updated: Jan 26, 2014, 2:00 PM

By Edhat Subscriber

Is it legal to make a right turn on red from southbound Las Positas onto Modoc? I see people do it, but it doesn't feel right because of the angle of the turn is much less than 90 degrees.

Comments in order of when they were received | (reverse order)

 COMMENT 489451P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 02:04 PM

If there is no sign there prohibiting a right turn on red, the turn is fully legal. I turn right there all the time, no problem.

 

 COMMENT 489452 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 02:08 PM

I agree--it's totally dangerous, because not only is the limit line on Las Positas so far from the intersection itself, but because you can't see west (north)bound traffic coming from Modoc. It would seem that a right turn on red is entirely legal, though, since there are no signs telling you not to.

 

 COMMENT 489454 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 02:09 PM

I do it all the time as well. But it is a very long right turn & I always do feel a little nervous about it.

 

 COMMENT 489457 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 02:22 PM

It's fine, and it should remain that way. Let's not dumb down the rules of the road and intersections like we've dumbed down education, just because some people aren't responsible for themselves.

 

 COMMENT 489460 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 02:29 PM

ATTENTION CITY TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERS:

PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS SINGLE COMPLAINT AS A DEMAND FOR YET ANOTHER O RIGHT TURN ON RED. THESE IDEAS DO NOT REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE COMMUNITY AND SHOULD BE READ WITH GRAIN OF SALT

 

 COMMENT 489471 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:06 PM

It's a problem because it's a very narrow path to get past cars waiting to go through the intersection. People routinely blast past cars on their left, often coming close to hitting rear view mirrors.
It should be a no right turn.

 

 COMMENT 489474 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:22 PM

I'm not quite understanding the difference between a full 90 degree right turn vs a-not-quite-90 degree right turn. It's still a right turn.

But I do get your point about people driving in the bike lane, often at higher than safe speeds, to get to the front of the line to make the right turn on red. That's about the only unsafe-ness I can see there, though, as there is plenty of visibility to go around.

 

 COMMENT 489475P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:24 PM

I always wonder about that too and am particularly wary.

 

 COMMENT 489476 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:25 PM

Yes it should be a no right turn...
In fact why don't we make those "slow down Sb" signs permanent?
Nobody really has anywhere to be, and we can all agree that we would love to spend much more time in our cars every day.

 

 COMMENT 489477 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:33 PM

It's also legal to turn left when safe on a red light at Anacapa and Haley.

 

 D8VANILLA agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:34 PM

Even if they installed a "NO RIGHT TURN ON RED" sign, I doubt anyone would obey it... Just like the new sign on DeLaVina at Carrillo.... I see about 90% of drivers still make a right turn onto Carrillo, when the light is red.

 

 COMMENT 489480P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:37 PM

I wish that everyone had taken Driver's Ed and Driver's Training at SBHS as I did. I think there are far too many people driving here who don't know the basics. That right turn on Modoc is no big deal, really.

 

 RUDOLF THE RED agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:38 PM

I think the problem might be cruising through the bike lane on the right of the normal sized lanes that is a little sketchy. It's a bike lane meant for bikes. I have been on my bike trying to make a right and all kinds of cars are in my lane.

 

 COMMENT 489485 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 03:51 PM

Just remember to look left and make sure there is no approaching traffic before you make the turn. Standard procedure, but some people must think that looking left isn't cool or something because I get cut off by those jerks all the time.

 

 COMMENT 489487 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 04:03 PM

Last I knew, you could use the last 200 feet of the bike lane as a right turn lane. Shortened from 400 ft in the 80's. So let's amend that post to say that 200 feet of the lane are for bikes and right-turning cars.

 

 COMMENT 489488 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 04:24 PM

keep turning right on red....if there are multiple accidents, traffic engineers will surely fix it with a no turn on red sign, or a green arrow right turn signal, a roundabout in that intersection, etc. until then, enjoy making some progress in your vehicle.

 

 COMMENT 489491 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 04:52 PM

Just because its legal doesn't mean you must do it. keep both hands on the wheel and your foot on the brake until the light changes. We don't want you to run into one of those scary fast driving cars.

 

 COMMENT 489492 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 04:53 PM

Ye gods! Not only is it legal, but there's a separate right turn only lane on Las Positas (which is often blocked). Visibility is not a problem and there's a left turn arrow on Modoc which stops oncoming traffic. What gives???

 

 COMMENT 489494 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 05:05 PM

492 Ye gods You are talking about the wrong corner going a different way YE gods! what gives?

 

 COMMENT 489497 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 05:10 PM

It's dangerous to roll out of bed and walk out the front door. We don't need this, just like we don't need a roundabout at Cliff & Las Positas. They should never removed the fast right, everything was working fine.

More control freaks and code enforcers - take it all away, not wanted or needed.

 

 COMMENT 489502P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 05:24 PM

485: What's cool is to blow through stop signs, cut people off when it's their right of way, yak on your cellphone while nearly smacking into some other vehicle, cut off pedestrians while they're in the crosswalk-----and then PRETEND like you didn't know you were being an a---hole. That's the new cool.

 

 COMMENT 489506 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 05:46 PM

if it were a problem, CALTRANS (It is a state highway) would have installed a NROR, but there isn't a problem. There hasn't been as long as I've lived since the 60's. If you think it's dangerous..maybe you should consider turning in your drivers license or take some driving classes.

 

 COMMENT 489507P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 05:47 PM

My SBPD neighbor cop says it's legal - move along citizens.

 

 COMMENT 489512 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 06:24 PM

If it were Caltrans (state highway) Then wouldn't this be CHP enforced.

 

 COMMENT 489520P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 06:38 PM

My SBPD cop with a dog says, "Woof." The Pro Bowl is on, and then the Gammy's. What's the issue?

 

 COMMENT 489523 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 06:58 PM

You aren't obliged to turn right, turn left, or go straight if you don't feel safe. Making those decisions and judgement calls is what being a safe driver is all about. If you need a sign to tell you what not to do at this particular intersection, think about taking a mature driving course.

 

 COMMENT 489525 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 07:04 PM

Is it legal? I would refer to posted signs.

 

 COMMENT 489529 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 07:08 PM

Sheesh. OP here. As pointed out (in geometric terms) in my question, I just wonder if the " turn " is indeed a right turn, since you need to drive almost straight ( through the red light ) for awhile before you can proceed down Modoc. I don't recall a right turn lane, just the bike lane. I hate when people honk at me for waiting at a red light, but I hate traffic tickets even more. And red light violation is hard on the bank account. So thanks to all who have answered the question, and drive safely everyone.

 

 COMMENT 489533 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 07:59 PM

/endthread

 

 VORAN agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-26 10:52 PM

It's legal and it is not dangerous. If someone feels that they cannot make that turn on a red safely, then they should not attempt it.

 

 COMMENT 489548P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 12:26 AM

Is there any right turn in SB where the angle is LESS than 90º? If so, I'd like to see it. I think the OP meant MORE than 90º? As in 120º or more?

 

 COMMENT 489552 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 06:21 AM

548 - I disagree, and I agree with the OP. Think about it this way...what would a turn if zero degrees be? I would call that going straight. And a turn off 180 degrees would be a U-turn. The "angle of turn" is the angle between the old direction of travel and the new direction of travel.

Thus this turn at Modoc is between 0 and 90 degrees. So endeth today's math lesson.

 

 COMMENT 489554 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 06:47 AM

It's dangerous at La Cumber too, but there's no sign prohibiting.

 

 COMMENT 489556 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 06:55 AM

548, without getting into whether the angle of the intersection is considered to be more or less than 90 degrees, there are intersections with right hand corners that turn past perpendicular. The most obvious is the same intersection from Modoc onto Las Positas. But also just offhand I can think of Alamar to State, Mission to Laguna, Sycamore Canyon to Barker Pass Road, etc. Any time two roads don't cross perfectly squarely, there is going to be such a turn.

 

 FRESHPAVEMENT agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 06:57 AM

I make that light turn during the red light all the time, and doing it for well over 20 years. It's never been a problem.

 

 COMMENT 489561 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 07:23 AM

What is nice is when cars going straight stop so far to the right that cars can't get by to exploit the free right.
The two reasons are ignorance or spite.
Spite in driving is one of the weirdest things....why do people care if another car can proceed or not? Like lane hogs that enter the freeway and immediately mover over a lane or 2 just to drive 5 or 10 mph under the limit.
We have thousands of signs that say slower traffic move right, yet the propensity is for all the traffic to move left.
I was disappointed that our Austrian Governor did not fix this during his 8 years. If you pass on the right in Europe you will be openly chastised by the other cars.

 

 COMMENT 489562 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 07:27 AM

The question might be, why are you required to stop so far away from the intersection on that road. Maybe the stop line for the right hand land should be farther up? But it is easier to paint straight lines for the road crews so that's how it is done.

 

 COMMENT 489573 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 08:15 AM

Stop at the line.
Move forward slowly.
Do not just turn into traffic because you've previously stopped.
Move forward cautiously.
Double check crosswalks.
Keep an eye on which direction has the right of way and might come towards you.
Is it the left turn lane? Opposing Modoc traffic? Those are the only two directions that can affect you.
Proceed.

 

 COMMENT 489608 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 09:58 AM

OP: If you have to ask, the real question to ask those close to you is: do I have the knowledge, skills and attentiveness to drive safely? Maybe a brush up on the vehicle code is in order.

Does everyone know it is courteous and required by law to indicate lane changes, turns, offramps exits, and merging manuvers? That headlights are required when its raining enough to turn the wipers on, cell phone use prohibited unless hands free. Bike lanes can be entered by motor vehicles only where dashed, and if not dashed 200ft from an intersection. And my favorite, the limit line. What good is it if no one uses it? Most cars stop so far over it, the car behind is usually at the limit line, and is not required to stop again past the line before proceeding.

 

 COMMENT 489618 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 10:22 AM

Of course it's legal. Just like any other right turn on a red, as long as there's no sign prohibiting it, it's legal, but only AFTER coming to a COMPLETE STOP and yielding to all through traffic, which includes cars, bikes and pedestrians.

 

 COMMENT 489639 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 11:16 AM

So if the stop line was 100yds back, could you still creep up to the actual corner and make a right turn? I bet not.

The original poster is just saying that is a long way to go to make a turn on a red light.

 

 COMMENT 489640 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 11:17 AM

Speaking of LaCumbre... Coming from Foothill, I wish during "rush hour" that those proceeding straight through the light at LaCumbre and State would stay in the middle lane and not clog up the right turn lane. The right turn lane can turn right ALL day long as there aren't opposing lanes from any direction. State is 2 lanes pre-LaCumbre and 3 lanes afterward. Since it's illegal to change lanes in an intersection the curb most lane ought to be empty save for right turners! Same with northbound on LaCumbre turning left onto State. Two lanes turning left, 3 lanes available. This morning one car went through the light while 13 cars behind it all turned right. Dear Engineers work on this instead of Modoc. Thank you.

 

 COMMENT 489646 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 11:31 AM

Any of the comments that suggests common sense... I am all for it! Please be courteous of others, imagine the tables were turned, this is crucial in making decisions.

 

 COMMENT 489678 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 01:04 PM

If there is a cop present at the intersection I wait for the light to change. No point in risking a $600 ticket over a 30 second wait.

 

 COMMENT 489692 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 02:34 PM

I always feel a little weird turning right on red from the leftmost right turn lane on Calle Real at Patterson. I know it is legal but it always feels like I'm cheating.

 

 COMMENT 489708 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 03:35 PM

@692 I know of what you speak, but cheating is the scoundrel who disregards the lane designation (as passed by MENSA for review and cheating secuirty) by-passes everyone, turns right from the right most lane and then bullies everyone to let them in to turn left at the light. Not a well thought out intersection.

 

 AUNTIE S. agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 06:00 PM

Like 451P, I turn right there all the time. You won't get hit because the cross traffic is stopped at their red light.

 

 COMMENT 489795P agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-27 06:12 PM

OP wonders if it really is a right turn? Well, it sure ain't a left one.

 

 COMMENT 489866 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-28 07:19 AM

It's really a California stop. You don't entirely stop, just keep moving slowly until you get to where you want to go.

At some point on the red you will interfere with cross traffic on Modoc or people turning left on Las Positas so you have to watch for that. Those of you that think you never interfere with traffic there should stop making that turn on the red.

 

 COMMENT 489939 agree helpful negative off topic

2014-01-28 10:27 AM

The more dangerous situation at this intersection is when the drivers coming south on Modoc, take the yield to turn right onto Las Positas, and don't yield! Just drive right into the lane even when there are 2 cars coming through the intersection, merging into one lane, going towards Cliff Drive! Trying to run the right of way drivers into each other, I guess! Road Hogs!!

 

26% of comments on this page were made by Edhat Community Members.

 

 

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