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Weather Blamed for Water Break
updated: Jan 15, 2013, 12:15 PM

By Edhat Subscriber

Does anyone else think that it is ridiculous that the news and the City of SB are blaming our 12" water main break on the cold weather? It would take much longer for 12" of running water to come close to freezing - like several days if not weeks of the temperature not going above freezing - especially since it was buried under ground at least a couple feet, if not more - and all of our tap water would be ice cold...

A water main break on Milpas Street this morning may have been linked to the overnight sub freezing temperatures (01/16/13)

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Comments in order of when they were received | (reverse order)

COMMENT 363722	2013-01-15 12:16 PM
On the other hand, our utilities are in such a shoddy state here that I'm not so sure it is ridiculous...
COMMENT 363723	2013-01-15 12:22 PM
YES.. the temperature required to rupture a 12 inch line would be Alaska ish. Just like the seriously aged electrical grid that shuts our office down ALMOST DAILY.. Santa Barbara is an aged mess. Just wait until the new increased rates for everything to pay for upgrades.. this should have been priced in decades ago and prepaid, but it will come soon.
COMMENT 363724	2013-01-15 12:25 PM
I don't think that anyone said it was due to the cold. They suggested a possible correlation. I think what was said online and in the video was quote: He said the broken pipe may have linked to the freezing temperatures. "It's possible, it's been pretty cold," said Marquez. I don't think that anyone gave a definitive answer to why it broke. Just that, as they said, it is possible it is related to the cold. Perhaps an unfortunate question to ask and highlight as it might lead some to the wrong conclusion.
COMMENT 363725P	2013-01-15 12:28 PM
Blaming the cold weather on the broken water main? I thought they were blaming the broken water main on the cold weather and did think that was ridiculous! ;) Having lived in the east where the weather gets really cold, frost down more than foot into the ground and house pipes in poorly insulated houses routinely freezing and the water mains not breaking, I find it hard to understand how non-freezing surface temperature would affect a several feet below ground water main line.
COMMENT 363726	2013-01-15 12:32 PM
I work on the lower east side and our water has been disrupted at least once a year if not more due to a water main break. It happens all the time around here so I agree it wasn't caused by the cold air. The water mains in the city are very old and need to be replaced but the cost is probably cheaper to keep replacing the breaks.
COMMENT 363728	2013-01-15 12:34 PM
Google "what causes pipes to burst in freezing temperatures" to get the scientific reasons...but it isn't water freezing in the pipes that causes the pipes to burst. I don't have the room to fully explain it here...look for yourself.
COMMENT 363729	2013-01-15 12:39 PM
Could be a combination of age, pressure change and temperature. It has been unseasonable cold and the water out of the tap is freezing.
COMMENT 363731	2013-01-15 12:44 PM
If you can get 50 people to agree the world is actually flat, not round as the government wonks claim, does it actually change the shape of the world? No, but you'd feel better knowing you're not wrong 'coz 50 people sed so. Water mains burst, sewer lines rupture, power lines get pulled down, cell calls are dropped and internet service gets cut without warning. Milk spoils and the price of everything goes up.... welcome to the real world.
COMMENT 363732	2013-01-15 12:50 PM
731: BINGO! It's life, people. It happens.
COMMENT 363733	2013-01-15 12:54 PM
Water expands with lower temperatures.
COMMENT 363734	2013-01-15 12:55 PM
But if the utilities were doing their job, they would be testing the mains at regular intervals to see if they have a problem. They would be budgeting money to replace them at regular intervals. Instead they have to respond to all of these breaks in the middle of the night after we have lost a bunch of treated water. I bet the losses they have offset all of the water-saving initiatives that people have done over the past year. Maybe the workers rely on the overtime they get for responding to the emergencies? Nice fat paychecks!
COMMENT 363735P	2013-01-15 12:57 PM
All I read was that it was possible, not that the freeing temps did cause this. Why the consternation?
MTNDRIVER	2013-01-15 01:15 PM
Thank you 731! This is life, folks. 734--Willing to pay higher taxes to pay for regular testing and replacement of water mains? If not, where's the money for that supposed to come from?
COMMENT 363746	2013-01-15 01:20 PM
The Institute for Business & Home Safety puts out a great brochure on "Freezing & Bursting Pipes". They say: "When should homeowners be alert to the danger of freezing pipes? That depends, but in southern states and other areas where freezing weather is the exception rather than the rule (and where houses typically do not provide adequate built-in protection or builders carelessly place pipes in unprotected areas), the 'temperature alert threshold' is 20 degrees F. This threshold is based upon research conducted by the Building Research Council at the University of Illinois."
COMMENT 363750	2013-01-15 01:29 PM
363733 - Water only expands when it freezes into a solid. As liquid water cools, it actually contracts, albeit very slightly, until it hits the freezing point. Water mains do not freeze when the air temp is in the high 20's.
COMMENT 363758	2013-01-15 01:57 PM
Not to mention the waters flowing.
COMMENT 363784	2013-01-15 03:04 PM
I have lived in my house on Figueroa for twenty three years...there is a break on this block at least once a year, in fact there is one here today that they are repairing. It always seems to occur during cold weather. Nice to have the street blocked off and the water will be back on soon. It's a minor inconvenience. Just waiting until the city demands everyone fix their leaking sewer lines after mandatory inspections.
REXOFSB	2013-01-15 03:07 PM
@778: No, it's not ridiculous at all. I actually learned a couple of things about frozen pipes on this thread.
COMMENT 363791	2013-01-15 03:17 PM
cold weather often breaks water mains.
SBITIZEN	2013-01-15 03:43 PM
Was it the city or the KEYT anchors trying to hype the story?
COMMENT 363826P	2013-01-15 04:20 PM
MTNDRIVER: We don't need more money to inspect water mains. We need more of our current $$ going to maintaining water mains and supplying water and less to city employees. The city has hired contractors to teach Public Works staff cleaning methods and use of video inspection techniques for sewer mains since the Channelkeepers lawsuit, and that's following 13 years of Channelkeepers lobbying, so it doesn't indicate the city put much effort into solving the sewer problem until it was really backed against the wall. The type of crystal lattice that water forms when it turns into ice causes expansion. Supercooled water that remains a liquid (eg. under pressure) has a volume smaller than if frozen.
COMMENT 363828P	2013-01-15 04:23 PM
The frigid temperatures may be linked to many problems Written by John Palminteri Story Created: Jan 14, 2013 at 4:28 PM PST Story Updated: Jan 14, 2013 at 7:05 PM PST A water main break on Milpas Street this morning may have been linked to the overnight sub freezing temperatures. not
SCEPTIC	2013-01-15 04:56 PM
It hasn't been nearly cold enough for freezing water to break water mains. I have a theory that old, cracked asphalt paving allows water to leak under the surface during rains etc, so that some of the roadbed washes away under the surface of the street,weakening it. When it's warm, the asphalt is flexible and can bend when heavy vehicles drive over it. When it's cold, the asphalt is more likely to crack and put enough pressure on water pipes below ground to crack them. Experiment: Determine incidence of water main fractures under roads paved with concrete v. asphalt @ near-freezing T.
COMMENT 363842	2013-01-15 04:59 PM
Some of the infrastructure in the city is from the 1920's or earlier... Apparently, it's better to be politically correct and give Million$ each year to "homeless" (Casa et al) and free housing on the 800 blk of E Canon Perdido, than say spending city money on Public Safety, Public Works and Water/Sewer upgrades....
COMMENT 363843	2013-01-15 05:00 PM
The real reason was cater switching the water..When pressures drop and pulse back on, the weak lines break. The water lines are very old cast iron. But the cold weather does not help at all.
SBJULES	2013-01-15 05:38 PM
36843 for the real reason.
COMMENT 363865	2013-01-15 05:45 PM
In Vermont where I am from, all water pipes are buried a minimum of 48" deep. It gets 30' below zero and still the pipes don't freeze, so I wouldn't think our little chill had all that much to do with it. If you look at the pictures the workers needed a ladder to get down to the pipe.
COMMENT 363867	2013-01-15 05:50 PM
It's Mr. Balboa employee with the water Department he keeps using leakender 2000 he swears by it....
COMMENT 363871	2013-01-15 05:59 PM
3826.... a yes, the Tea Party solution. Less money for employees to do more.... more better, more efficient, more productive and more cheaper.
COMMENT 363902P	2013-01-15 07:48 PM
Yes, we need to put $$ into infrastructure. It's getting worse around here. How important is the cause? Wait til the next bridge collapse or something that kills many people and we'll have an uproar, and probably do nothing... I support the federal monies that went to Sandy victims, but there will be more need soon. Yes, I will pay taxes for infrastructure support.
COMMENT 363947P	2013-01-16 12:26 AM
902P "next bridge collapse?" When did we have a bridge collapse around here? Was I out of town?
COMMENT 363953P	2013-01-16 04:40 AM
947, I was making a general statement about the infrastructure of the USA. Nope, no bridges in danger here in town... Well, lots of overpasses, as well as water lines, which are the government's responsibility. I'm also concerned about the number of fires and outages that involve SCE. Those I'm already paying for, though they certainly don't *seem* have the taxes that landline phones do. I'm not familiar enough with cell phone bills. Do they too subsidize low cost, aka lifeline, phone lines? from 902.
COMMENT 363957P	2013-01-16 06:42 AM
No
COMMENT 363967P	2013-01-16 07:15 AM
The whole nation's infrastructure, pipes and sewers and buildings and bridges, is being put off and shortchanged by budgetary constrictions; ours too.
GBOB	2013-01-16 08:12 AM
MTNDRVR & 731 - thank you! Up front, I do NOT work for the city, and I do not know what caused the break. We always seem to blame "lazy, overpaid" city workers, we always expect perfection, we always expect all services to be provided efficiently, but we never want to consider paying the cost. We're lucky to live in a relatively young city with relatively new infrastructure. Nothing last forever, and we need to expect to continue to pay for the upkeep of the facilities we take for granted. I love this place, and even though I'm in the 99% and can barely afford to live here, I'm thankful for what we have.
MESAJIM	2013-01-16 08:17 AM
Perhaps the city should consider installing (hydro)smart meters to monitor the condition of the water mains. ;)
COMMENT 364041P	2013-01-16 10:32 AM
C'mon, really? Can't you imagine that something else triggered by the cold weather caused the main to fail, besides 12" of frozen-solid water?? Really?? I'm having a good chuckle, anyway, at all the indignation !!

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