more articles like this

Safety Mirrors
updated: Jan 01, 2013, 4:39 PM

By Edhat Subscriber

What are the private property restrictions on placing safety mirrors along curving roads? Our driveway opens onto a dangerous blind curve: a convex mirror on the other side of the road enabled us to see approaching cars before we pull out. The neighbors removed our mirror even tho it was largely hidden in bushes and well out of their line of sight on the rare occasions they are here. There's no way to position a mirror on our own property given the curve of the road: we've tried.

Comments in order of when they were received | (reverse order)

COMMENT 359107	2013-01-01 05:04 PM
Try talking to them first and explain YOUR problem. You can't just put something up without asking first.
COMMENT 359115	2013-01-01 05:19 PM
You can't put something up on someone else's property without their consent regardless of how you rationalize that they ought not mind. This is one case where asking permission is better than asking forgiveness.
COMMENT 359130P	2013-01-01 06:21 PM
In this day and age of amped up lawsuits and liability concerns, the thought crosses my mind that an overly concerned person would feel like the mirror was some sort of tacit admission of dangerous conditions. Say an accident happened, and someone sued. Their lawyer might include the property owner in the suit, and say the mirror contributed to the accident...either it was not maintained, was a distraction, or some such thing. I'm not agreeing with such a paranoid perspective, but you never know what someone's reason is. It may or may not be one you agree with, though. Oh, also, no kidding, some songbirds will exhaust themselves attacking shiny objects during mating season. Seen them trash rear view mirrors on cars. Someone might not want birds exhausting and hurting themselves as they attack a non-existent rival. I'm serious!
COMMENT 359131	2013-01-01 06:23 PM
It sounds like the relationship with neighbors is already established. You could have asked their consent. They could have asked your consent to move it. We have other mailboxes on our property. Other people put their garbage cans on our property. Good neighbors are great.
COMMENT 359133	2013-01-01 06:26 PM
If you are in the city, ask the city, otherwise the county -- they own the right of way property -- usually a set-back of 10 feet or so from the road. A mirror in that area isn't on your neighbors property. Talking to them would be the place to start, but you should know the rules of your jurisdiction.
COMMENT 359179P	2013-01-02 12:16 AM
133 wrote the most judicious comment. A lot of people mistakenly think their property line goes right up to the curb/street. The City of SB calls the area between the curb and the sidewalk "the parkway." You pay taxes on this strip, you maintain it, but it is City-owned. Sounds to me like you may not have the sidewalk/parkway as most of us do (I'm guessing you're on APS). However, 133 is correct. There is still a City/County-owned set-back. Find out where the set-back is and talk with City (or County?) Streets Dept about your mirrored sign. Problem is: maybe the City/County won't want that sign installed either. Best of luck to you. Some driveways in SB are a gamble, every time you try to pull out/back out of one. Too bad everyone has to drive like they're racing the clock.
COMMENT 359259	2013-01-02 10:45 AM
359130P - Liability can be a big driver, but you are far more likely to incurr liability for removing a safety device than for allowing one. Also, 133 is most likely correct about this being a city/county-owned strip of land, and government agencies have deep pockets and are especially concerned over liability. So bottom line, work it out with the neighbor if you can and if not, work it out with whoever owns the road and its shoulder. If none of the above works, you could try sending a letter to all parties concerned expressing concern over the liabilities involved in not having the safety device in place. That might turn things around for you, but if not, it will at least give your lawyer and insurnace company something to work with if there ever is an accident.
SCEPTIC	2013-01-02 09:28 PM
Look up the law yourself. From my experience, you're likely to get an incorrect answer from SB city staff, which won't affect your liability. I'd check the MUTCD on the DOT website at us.gov. Road signs are federal law; state laws must comply with fed law and are a violation of fed. law if they don't. California has an MUTCD also, but it's vague and incomplete in some areas. I don't know if either US or CA law mentions mirrors, but the bottom line is your compliance with the law, so you're safer checking out the law yourself.

38% of comments on this page were made by Edhat Community Members.