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An encounter in a local coffee shop has Craig wondering, whe...

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COMMENT 45090	2009-11-12 12:31 AM
I guess you could have gotten out your phone and started talking so it interfered with her ability to hear and maybe she wold have gotten the idea. I know it seems the wimpy thing to do but I would have moved or left. I've tried my share of confrontations and trying to get employees to help out with the situation and it never does any good. Anyone else have ideas?
COMMENT 45091	2009-11-12 01:26 AM
I am SO glad you initially confronted her politely- I have been in this situation too many times. You have given me the guts to do this next time- but from you I learned to stop at one comment- it ended up going too far in the end. Maybe just saying something like "that is really too bad" or shaking your head if they said no would have planted the seed that they are perhaps being an inconsiderate "witch" without them having any reason to think that you are being confrontational.
COMMENT 45092	2009-11-12 04:42 AM
Craig , there is a reason that many establishments have signs asking that cellphone use be kept outside . I have frequented the coffee house mentioned and have always found it to be a fairly quiet environment , with students dong homework and people reading or politely conversing . For the self centered , common courtesy is a foreign concept .
COMMENT 45093	2009-11-12 04:50 AM
That's an interesting story. But I don't see any black & white answers. On the one hand it is rude to plop down next to you and blab. On the otherhand you were not at a library or bookstore. At a coffeeshop there is no social contract to be quiet. In fact it mght be argued that a coffeeshop is a place for conversation. After her "no" that was the time to see the writing on the wall about her personality and drop it. The "witch" comment predictably introduced all the drama that followed. Here's the bottom line: if the coffeeshop rules allow her to sit there and talk on the phone, she had every right to do it. She was exercising her right to be rude, you might say.
COMMENT 45094	2009-11-12 05:16 AM
It is ok to call her on it (asking her to talk outside). Saying stuff after that was asking for trouble.
DARYL	2009-11-12 05:47 AM
Sitting down next to you and immediately whipping out her cell phone to make a call was rude. I think you were right to ask her to take the conversation outside. After that, I think the manager should have stepped in and shown a little backbone. If The Good Cup wants to be a quiet place where people can write or study, they need to enforce a "no cell phones" rule. If they want to be a public phone booth, then we quiet-loving types should take our business elsewhere. (Too bad, though, because I do like the atmosphere there.)
COMMENT 45097	2009-11-12 06:00 AM
Yes! Thank you Craig - I'm behind you all the way - I just wish I could do something like that when a telephony person is blabbing their life story, out loud, to the world.
COMMENT 45100	2009-11-12 06:16 AM
Yeah Craig! I had always wondered why I find cell phone conversations agitating, as person to person conversations don't have the same effect on me. Several years ago research was conducted and has proven that the problem with cell phone conversations is that those being forced to listen aren't getting the rhythm of a "real" conversation and that broken rhythm is agitating on the nervous system. This is a real physiological problem and being forced to listen to someone's lengthy conversations is more than just rude and inconsiderate; it's unhealthy.
ZIP	2009-11-12 06:26 AM
Calling someone a 'witch' was begging for the incident to escalate, but you were absolutely right to call the woman on her incredibly rude behavior. I'm with others: The Good Cup needs to put up a big no cell phones sign inside, and the manager needs to get a backbone.
COMMENT 45103	2009-11-12 06:37 AM
Ambiguous rules at Good Cup appear to be the root of the problem here. If no cell phones are allowed they need to post a sign.
COMMENT 45105	2009-11-12 06:53 AM
Same thing happened to me in at LAX the other day. Even though there were dozens of seats to choose from, a young woman plopped down in the one next to me and proceeded to initiate a series of loud and mind-bogglingly mundane conversations - her shampoo and conditioner were confiscated! Imagine that! She had to tell all her friends right away! As I was waiting for my flight, no fewer than eight people pissed off everyone in the immediate area by making loud, obnoxious cell phone calls. Because I heard every word, I can tell you that none of these people have lives worth living. On the plane, five minutes after the flight attendant asked (for the second time) for everyone to turn off their cell phones so the flight could depart, one fellow - embarrassingly, from Santa Barbara - refused to hang up. He actually delayed the flight because he was in the middle of a scintillating conversation in which he informed us all what a wonderful and successful actor he is. Maybe so, but I'd never seen him in anything, and he seems to have jettisoned his social skills somewhere along his fabulous career trajectory. The following day I was sitting in a deli where the tables were only about 12 inches apart. A woman in her sixties sat next to me. The waiter asked if she needed something to read. She replied, "No, I've got my cell phone with me." I was stunned that anyone could even think that was an "entertainment" option in a crowded restaurant. It's becoming a national crisis of selfishness and discourtesy, all the more so because the conversations always seem so pointless and the callers so boring. I'd like to suggest that restaurants, cafes, libraries and other public places city-wide institute no-cell phone rules. It could save a lot of cell-phone-rage and lower the health costs of treating rising blood pressure levels. In places like airports, perhaps small rooms could be designated for cell phone use so the rest of the population could have some respite from th... [ more ]
LIFESIGHS	2009-11-12 07:10 AM
Cell phones are the worst possible invention, they should be used for changing an appointment, calling for service, things you need when you are out and about. Calls to chat would be illegal in my world. What is the problem with people who need to constantly talk talk talk as if they are afraid to be by themselves for a few minutes. The issue is the harm they cause others with the rudeness and the harm to themselves with the disorder of "always being connected". I agree that these people have mundane lives and want to bore the rest of us with them. Sorry, I needed to rant about this and hope I haven't bored the rest of you. Right on with calling her out. Your rudeness with the "witch" name didn't help though.
SHIPSSTEW	2009-11-12 07:17 AM
Good for you. Just cause you can, doesn't mean you should, and her bad manners needed to be pointed out.
COMMENT 45116	2009-11-12 07:39 AM
Craig: I too go into the Good Cup on occasion, and I am around your age. I think you know the answer to your own question. You were right to ask her to talk outside. You were wrong to call her a (w)itch. Why? Because using that word was not only rude, it was demeaning. You had the opportunity to make an important point and you only adopted (and topped) the sort of behavior you wanted to stop....
COMMENT 45117	2009-11-12 07:45 AM
Good for you! Would that I would have had similar courage. My blood pressure rose just reading about that aptly-named "witch." However, the fault is shared with the "Good Cup" - good cuppa, lousy environment and if I had that kind of "service" from the employees, I would not return there until there is a posted sign advising cellphone calls, except for emergencies, should be outside. With enforcement. There's an epidemic of rudeness, much of centering on cellphone usage and the apparent belief that one is indeed an island with no rights for anyone else. As for the comparison of cellphone conversations and F-2-F ones, most people seem to talk much louder on cellphones than they do in person. I fantasize of having some sort of gadget that would shortcut the offending phones.
Z28RACERGIRL	2009-11-12 08:06 AM
I don't think it's a generational thing at all. I see folks of all ages doing it.
COMMENT 45126	2009-11-12 08:15 AM
I would have "accidentally" spilled my cup of coffee on her!
COMMENT 45127	2009-11-12 08:21 AM
If someone asked me to please take it outside, I would apologize and end the cell phone conversation. This woman's behavior shows she knew that she was disrupting other people's peace and could have cared less. Selfish. I probably would have pulled out my Iphone and either started my own loud conversation (perhaps commenting on this woman's conversation), or started the music on my phone to drown out her conversation. I guess I'm passive aggressive.
BUDDY	2009-11-12 08:24 AM
Agree, first time was OK, second was unnecessary and made it worse. Excellent idea to put up a sign at the Good Cup.
PEAWATT	2009-11-12 08:28 AM
Unfortunately, the problem of confrontation is going to get worse. If I wanted to stop or limit cell phone use in an enclosed area I would paint it with an RF absorbing paint and properly interface it to ground. The stuff isn't cheap, but neither is the potential loss of two -or more-customers because of a confrontation. No policy on cell phone use would have to be posted and none would be the wiser.
SB8BALL	2009-11-12 08:31 AM
Craig, while she may have been overly loud and obnoxious, a coffee shop is neither a restaurant nor a library. Ask yourself this...had she been sitting there with a friend, and the two were engaged in the same loud conversation, would you have asked the two to take it outside and finish their conversation? I think not.
COMMENT 45134	2009-11-12 08:36 AM
Cell phone jammers are illegal and I'm definitely not recommending their use. But....
COMMENT 45138	2009-11-12 08:39 AM
Craig, she was rude and you were right to ask her to go outside to finish the conversation. The name calling was crossing over the line but I would have been tempted to do the same and not sure if I could have stopped myself from using that word either.
COMMENT 45146	2009-11-12 08:42 AM
I think you are wrong for saying something. Cell phones are here to stay, and a coffee shop is not the kind of place where people are supposed to be quiet - what is so sacred about it? I agree with you on cell phone use being rude in a library or at the checkout lines, etc, but I think that you especially took it too far by calling her names for using a cell phone next to you in a coffee shop. I doubt you would have done the same for two people having a conversation in person right next to you, even at the same volume or louder. My theory on why people get upset over cell phone use in their presence is because we can't hear the other side of the conversation and we are naturally curious (even if we want to be indignant about the content of the conversation). If there is a social contract to be quiet in a coffee shop, then that should apply to everything, which wouldn't make for a very inviting coffee shop.
COMMENT 45152	2009-11-12 08:50 AM
You rude old fart! Now you're going to blog about it?
ALLEGRO805	2009-11-12 08:53 AM
I can kind of see Hil's (and others') point that a coffee shop isn't sacred, silent space. But I also can see Craig's point about thinking that just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's the "polite" thing to do. I have a friend who is constantly annoyed by cell conversations in public, and I do often come back with the retort that if the person were engaged in a loud, annoying conversation in person with his/her equally loud, annoying friend, would it be any more or less "polite" and/or appropriate? All that said, the answer is "Yes"... people have hardly any sense of politeness or decorum anymore and generally think the world revolves around them. And it's not just generational; there are plenty of Boomer-aged "witches" (and warlocks) who act as if public spaces are their living rooms. Don't even get me started on movie theater behavior.
COMMENT 45155	2009-11-12 08:54 AM
You were absolutely correct in asking her to take her conversation outside. After all, you were there first! The egocentricism of people these days is astonishing. A coffeehouse is just that, a place to have a cup of joe, relax, read, some conversation with a live person. Had you been eavesdropping in on her conversation with a person who was actually present, how would she have responded to that? And her tattling to the manager? You hit the nail on the head. She's a case of arrested development. As much as she has a right to have a phone conversation, you have a right not to have your peace and quiet compromised.
COMMENT 45156	2009-11-12 08:56 AM
Although the outcome of this particular situation was not positive for either of you, I'm sure she'll think twice about talking on her phone in a coffee house next time.
POPE	2009-11-12 08:59 AM
I'm glad you said something to her, although I'll agree it should of stopped with just the first comment. Kudos to you for being assertive and asking her politely instead of being passive aggressive to prove your point. It is dis-respectful to carry on long and loud cell phone conversations in front of others who are either quietly reading or having person to person conversations. It is one thing to quickly set plans or check status, but to to settle in next to someone only to carry on over the phone is very rude.
COMMENT 45159	2009-11-12 09:10 AM
The majority of comments seem to be in favor of STFU. I have asked twice for concert goers and movie theater patrons in the row in front of me to close their cell phones. They complied both times. I believe they were looking at their calendars or reading text messages. It doesn't matter. If its bothering you tell them. Their phones were emitting a bright light that spoiled the concert/theater ambiance. I confess that I made a needless cell phone call in the airport to complain about my confiscated toothpaste. I guess next time I'll tell the person next to me in the airport what I an idiot I was for forgetting the 4 oz. rule instead of my wife.
COMMENT 45160	2009-11-12 09:10 AM
Come on Craig- you and Nick Welch are the kings of rude. Don't complain about the poor girl talking on a cell phone. This is America. Talking on a cell phone is legal and just because she disturbs your quiet time, that's not her fault. At least she's speaking respectfully.
AUNTIE	2009-11-12 09:13 AM
I don't feel that it was appropriate to ask her to go outside. The problem you had was that she was loud, perhaps to ask to to lower her voice would have been more appropriate. I think that people talk much louder on cell phones than in one-on-one conversation. Any statistics on that?
COMMENT 45164	2009-11-12 09:24 AM
Commenter 45100 made an interesting point about why hearing one end of a phone conversation is MORE annoying than hearing a loud conversation. When people are conversing loudly, even though they may be disrupting your thoughts, at least the conversation makes sense. And the conversers are paying the price of being loud by sacrificing their entire privacy. Whereas, the cell phone user's one- sided conversation is just nonsensical noise invading your space. I agree that you were right to point out your annoyance, but wrong to call her a (w)itch, etc. Growing up with such widescale cell phone use, she has no concept that it might not be acceptable behavior. Politely, pointing it out may have educated her and more effectively influenced her future behavior. Or not.
TINK	2009-11-12 09:26 AM
Why would any conscious person who knew they were going to be talking, on a cell phone or to a companion, sit next to a person who was clearly reading, regardless of the location? Just plain rude. I have often joined in on cell phone conversations that are too loud and too near me. I just start answering out loud whatever the person on the phone asks. "Did you see what she was wearing?", says the caller. "Yes, didn't you think it was wonderful", I answer. The person on the phone looks confused. I keep it up. The person on the phone looks embarrassed and laughs, and usually ends the call.
ROGER DODGER	2009-11-12 09:39 AM
I would have farted. Then let the little witch smell how bitter it is.
SB8BALL	2009-11-12 09:44 AM
Roger wins.
COMMENT 45181	2009-11-12 09:56 AM
I called Good Cup and asked about their cell phone policy. They said "cell phone use is ok as long as you are discreet and don't bother other people." So the (w)itch was violating the coffee shop's policy.
COMMENT 45182	2009-11-12 09:59 AM
I'm assuming by witch you called her a gender-charged derogatory word. I don't think the name calling was at all appropriate or necessary in this situation. Your first course of action is completely fine, however. Genuinely asking someone to shorten or complete their phone call somewhere else is fine. When this happens to me I usually eavesdrop for a minute to see if it sounds like a very important or emergency call. Usually if it's a mom or dad talking to their children I'll let it go unless it's getting ridiculous. If name calling ever does present itself, I'll usually call the guy or girl a gender-neutral curse word, because sometimes women (and men) will take a name I call them and think I'm being sexist, which I'm not at all. I don't understand the need to always be on the phone either. At 21 years old at UCSB with my phone in my pocket all day, I have only rarely answered it in the library or anywhere public that is even moderately quiet. The times I've answered it's usually been for my parents and I've answered it to tell them to wait while I find a new place to talk.
COMMENT 45184	2009-11-12 10:07 AM
Similar type of situation: People who arrive at the back of the line in at the counter of a cafe (e.g., Renauds) to order and put something of theirs (a hat, a book) on a table to "reserve" this. At Renauds they needed to enforce a policy of telling people to wait their turn to get a table, and I've seen some folks who, when they are caught, put up a scene about being embarrassed by the employee... when it is the customer who has embarrassed themself.
COMMENT 45188	2009-11-12 10:11 AM
You are absolutely correct in confonting her. It is rude and low class to engage in conversations on cell phones in public areas. Too bad they do not post a sign in the coffee shop. I do appreciate it when signs are posted and have pointed them out to people more than once. On a similar note. I think it would be great to have cell phone booths in public areas that people would use if they were "forced" to have that oh-so-important phone call.
COMMENT 45190	2009-11-12 10:28 AM
Great entrepreneurial idea! I would put in an old-style phone booth and call it 'Cell Phone Booth.' The policy would be that anyone who needs to use the phone must go into the booth where a 3-minute egg timer would be placed. Turn over the egg timer and finish in 3 minutes or under so the next patron can have a turn. All are served - cell phone talkers can talk (with privacy no less) and others don't have to be annoyed. Sometimes my brilliance astounds even me!
COMMENT 45192	2009-11-12 10:32 AM
COMMENTER 45190. Yes. This is an idea I have had for sometime. I do not have a retail business, but If I did, I would incorporate a private booth for cell phone use.
COMMENT 45197	2009-11-12 10:44 AM
I always make a point of thanking business owners who have posted "no cell phones" type signage in their businesses (Metropoulus, where they will not take your order at the counter if you are on the phone, thank you Ann!; Fresco; and San Ysidro Coffeeshop come to mind)...it would be great if this trend would catch on and people would be forced to "take it outside" when they want to wail on their cells. I'm continually amazed how loud people talk when they're on a cell, also...talking louder doesn't help with poor reception; you can actually speak very softly and be heard, without the other folks around you becoming annoyed or interrupted...encourage them to try it! Ten points for Craig for giving this woman some feedback...maybe she'll get hassled again and eventually give it some thought, we can only hope.
COMMENT 45200	2009-11-12 10:52 AM
I probably would have moved, depending on how many vacant seats were available, but you were in the right to ask her to move, or be quieter, but in a polite way. Calling her a witch was just asking for trouble. Next time, you might try what a friend of mine does when confronted with such a situation: engage in the conversation as if you were on the other end of the phone. It's pretty funny and you'll get some interesting reactions. Typically, the person gets the message and moves away.
COMMENT 45201	2009-11-12 10:52 AM
I have had to deal with far ruder behavior on buses, bars, parks, traffic. This wasn't the best example. In europe, people definitely speak up, and I noticed it in New York city as well. You are allowed to correct other people's children in public (which would appear odd here). In New York, you can tell people to stop hogging both subway seats etc.
COMMENT 45211	2009-11-12 11:22 AM
If I read Craig's blog right, then he either was thinking "witch", and simply called her "rude", or he actually called her a "bitch". Me thinks thee latter. Craig???
SAMROQUE	2009-11-12 11:24 AM
Where is Maxwell Smart's "cone of silence" when we need it?
MICHIEB	2009-11-12 11:29 AM
I do think its a public spot, so while her behavior was rude the comment by you was a little over the line. To take it one step further would it have been okay for another customer to have called you on it by pointing out you were in a public place, not your house? If they had called you a name for your behavior would that have been warranted? I get irritated by loud talkers but also by people who think coffee shops are some type of personal office or chapel, its not a library after all.
COMMENT 45217	2009-11-12 12:00 PM
When I overhear phone conversations, I start answering like I'm on the other end. (Because, in reality, I am.) If I'm included in their conversation, I'm dang well having my say. Bothers the hell outta the rude folks, but, hey, do I really need to hear about so-and-so's hysterectomy or some shopping adventure with the cheating hubby's card?
TENORELEVEN	2009-11-12 12:00 PM
SAMROQUE: What?
COMMENT 45219	2009-11-12 12:04 PM
I don't think it makes a difference that you are hearing just one side of the conversation - I was in a crowded retail store last Saturday morning and a woman was carrying on a lengthy conversation on her cell phone ON SPEAKERPHONE...I thought "you've got to be kidding me!" Not only did I have to hear her, I had to hear the other half of the fuzzy conversation in Spanish yet.
SB8BALL	2009-11-12 12:06 PM
Maxwell Smart's Cone of Silence
COMMENT 45221	2009-11-12 12:10 PM
Craig your were so right...I would have made her eat her phone....I own a restaurant and I am constantly asking poeple not to use their cells...you should see the looks I get..last night got the prize..5 Korean men all on their cell phones..it was almost like a SNL skit... Love you..and your are not an old fart....
COMMENT 45222	2009-11-12 12:16 PM
Reminds me of a time back in '96 when my ex and I were watching Diabolique, a terrible Sharon Stone movie, in an empty theatre in MA. 15 minutes into the movie 2 other people came in and sat several rows behind us. We were the only 4 people in the theatre. They started talking to each other. Loudly. Now, the movie was terrible, but regardless, I was flabbergasted. We shushed them 2 or three times, then finally I got up and yelled "SHUT THE F-UP!!!" The guy replied "Excuse me, I'm talking to my mother!" To make a long story short, we almost came to blows over this, and the poor 17-yr-old usher stood there in amazement at the ruckus developing between all of 4 patrons. In hindsight I should have walked out and asked for my money back.
COMMENT 45224	2009-11-12 12:38 PM
Comment 45152...are you the culprit?
COMMENT 45226	2009-11-12 12:46 PM
Sign of the times, for business owners: instead of "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" insert cell phones in the phrase, or just post a picture of a cell phone with a red circle around it and a slash through it...improve the ambience of your establishment 100% (unless it's a noisy place where cell phone abuse goes unnoticed anyway.)
COMMENT 45228	2009-11-12 12:57 PM
Some people cannot be disconnected from their cell phones. I was at a funeral service and not once but TWICE during the service two different cell phones rang. The epitome of rudeness. Much thanks to all the restaurants and business's that post a "no cell phone" policy.
SAMROQUE	2009-11-12 01:05 PM
SB8BALL, thanks for covering me on the "Cone of Silence!" An in joke for us old guys.
DAN39	2009-11-12 01:09 PM
Love the Cone of Silence. I've seen Craig at The Good Cup in the very seat he writes about. For him to act this way, the woman must have been very annoying. This phrase comes to mind, ". . . mild-mannered reporter, Craig Smith."
COMMENT 45234	2009-11-12 01:11 PM
Yesterday afternoon I was at Albertson's on the Mesa and there were 4 high school age girls next to the meat counter dancing to loud music. Someone was taking video. I wasn't sure what was going on...they were in everyone's way but no one was stopping them. 5 minutes later I was in line to pay and the girls were arguing with the manager, who was the cashier at the time, and who told them to stop. They kept pleading to continue, saying it was a "project". Finally, out of frustration, the manager told the girls to leave or he was going to call the police. Rudeness is everywhere.
SB8BALL	2009-11-12 01:14 PM
@SamRoque - Old guys? I'm 44. But I do have gray hair. And I'm a grandfather. And my knees hurt. OK, I give.
COMMENT 45240	2009-11-12 01:30 PM
Maybe I’m the only one who sees the irony here. Hang with me while I demonstrate the analogy between Craig the coffee customer and Craig the political blogger. Craig Smith thinks it’s o.k. to confront a coffee house customer for what he perceives is obnoxious behavior. He even stoops to name calling and public embarrassment in defending his right to peace and quiet in a public food establishment. This is the same Craig Smith who, along with his buddy Nick Welsh, have lambasted those “negative” campaigners who backed Preserve Our Santa Barbara. Although I don’t see it, they claim that Santa Barbara is no place for what they describe as negative, mud-slinging, utterly offensive campaign tactics. Isn’t POSB demonstrating the same exact right that Craig demonstrated in the coffee shop? To speak up, and loudly object to someone else’s offensive behavior? Many Santa Barbarans view Marty Blum and her clique as a self-appointed ruling class. The gang in control that has subverted the local political system in order to take over a city government and act with disregard to a large and unhappy segment of the community. But when that segment rises up, forms themselves as POSB, and publishes campaign material aimed at exposing and unseating the clique, Craig and Nick and others attack them with a wave of finger-wagging as being negative and nasty, unworthy of support. So, Craig, I guess your right to speak out with forceful assertiveness can be viewed as noble and righteous. On the other hand, it could be viewed as negative and inappropriate. But when step off your high horse after slamming POSB, and then proceed to assert your own rights in your favorite little coffee shop, some of us view that as hypocrisy.
COMMENT 45241	2009-11-12 01:33 PM
Someone is missing a big chip off of their shoulder :>0
ROGER DODGER	2009-11-12 01:37 PM
Youngster.
COMMENT 45245	2009-11-12 01:45 PM
I was at a mime performance. A MIME show—if there's anywhere you expect people not to talk, it would be a theater mime performance. Anyway, this woman's cell phone goes off and she walks out WHILE TALKING LOUDLY into her phone. OK, I thought. Maybe she didn't realize her phone was on (even though they had made the announcement about please turning off your cells before the show). She returns to her seat and moments later—SAME THING! All I could do was mime darts at her from my eyes.
COMMENT 45259	2009-11-12 02:25 PM
Two words: Ear Plugs.
TOBYCAT	2009-11-12 02:30 PM
One word: Consideration.
KBSUTHERLIN	2009-11-12 02:45 PM
I'm definitely on your side, Craig. The use of cell phones and their innate sense of overriding place of ultimate importance has gone too far. So many times when having a conversation with someone, their cell phone goes off and -- voila -- they HAVE to answer this rude interruption of whatever importance it is for a long enough time for me to stand around waiting for them to finish whatever the cell-phone caller wanted before continuing with our original conversation -- this is just plain rude. If I am in that same circumstance I just let my cell phone take the message -- as the person I am speaking with was there first and deserves my uninterrupted attention, before I turn back to see who called and answer the cell message. Almost always it is someone who can wait, and rarely an emergency like so many people must think when rudely interrupting our in-person conversations to take oftentimes, multiple cell phone calls .... just plain rude and lacking in basic good manners! What is especially bothersome and extremely rude also is someone who is in line in front of me buying something while carrying on a conversation on their cell phone and not listening to the clerk -- making their transaction three times as long as necessary while everyone waits behind them. There should be an unwritten code of ethical behavior for cell phone users ..... in my opinion, a person calling a cell phone should expect to be a third or fourth etc. person entering into the situation and expect to be called back when the cell-phone user is in a position that they are not driving, engaged in a conversation with a real person(s) standing in front of them or at the very least -- not in a place where their loud conversation will interrupt the inherent surroundings suc... [ more ]
COMMENT 45275	2009-11-12 03:33 PM
Glad to see I was not the only one who thought of the cone of silence! Maybe there is a marketing idea here. Yes she was rude. You can ask nicely but name calling is also rude. Solution--I wish I had one.
COMMENT 45278	2009-11-12 04:10 PM
Craig has certainly touched a raw social nerve here. Two more comments were added in the time it took me to write this one! Social Contracts for quiet are both static and dynamic. Libraries, doctor’s waiting rooms, theater, and bookstores are examples of static ones in which the rules don’t change. Coffee shops, restaurants, stores, checkout lines are dynamic and will often vacillate; a location being quiet one hour and boisterous the next. How many times have you selected a restaurant or other destination because you knew it would be quiet and alternately selected one because you knew it would be where the action was? These locations do not post No Cell Phone signs because they hope common courtesy will guide patrons based on ambient conditions. Craig had the advantage of “setting the tone” and the woman entering the situation should have recognized the social contract and respected it. Alternately, had Craig arrived after the woman had started her phone call, it would have been inappropriate for him to ask her to finish her call elsewhere. Unfortunately, Craig over-reacted to the woman’s brazen lack of social responsibility following his reasonable request, escalating the situation and resulting in the doubting of his position.
SB8BALL	2009-11-12 04:15 PM
I'm so glad I married my wife. I would be mortified to tell this woman to be quiet. My wife wouldn't hesitate.
COMMENT 45283	2009-11-12 04:26 PM
So, lets sum-up what has really happened here. Craig's perceived private space was invaded/disturbed in a public place, by something as common as a inconsiderate cellphone caller; thereby precipitating numerous diatribes about the correctness, or inappropriateness, of him telling the offending woman to leave the premises, and him calling her a bitch in the process: Which, consequently, gives Good Cup a black eye because the proprietress, not wanting to offend royalty, gave Craig a pass, and did not admonish him for swearing at a lowly, peasant customer. Excellent work Craig; just capitol in fact. Commenter's HIL and 45093 gave good advise. Mine, life it too short to suffer fools.. pick your battles wisely, or at least prioritize them. Moving to another chair wouldn't have been too humiliating or beneath you considering the resulting brouhaha that you created.
TENORELEVEN	2009-11-12 05:12 PM
SAMROQUE: I covered you first. :-) Sorry if it was too subtle.
DAN39	2009-11-12 06:54 PM
comment 45250 & 45283, It's not that big.
COMMENT 45304	2009-11-12 07:44 PM
@45240 -- bad analogy. But also you have a few incorrect facts. Mayor Blum and the council (who's her "clique"?) not a self-appointed ruling class but duly elected officials, all of them, including Self, Hotchkiss as well as Williams, Francisco, etc. And no segment, no group of people rose up and became POSB: that was solely funded by one former Santa BArbara high school graduate, now a Texas developer with a Montecito property. I don't see any connection between the POSB and Craig Smith's blog....
COMMENT 45305	2009-11-12 07:48 PM
I guess that was more polite than telling her to shove the phone up her a55 to be closer to her head.
COMMENT 45306	2009-11-12 07:55 PM
Years ago I was waiting in line to order breakfast at Mimi's Cafe in Goleta, behind an idiot who couldn't make up his mind about what he wanted for breakfast. He then (without ordering and still in line) answered his cell phone and began the usual loud conversation on it, in spite of all the people in line behind him. Only the greatest effort at self-control prevented me from grabbing the phone out of his hand and throwing it.
COMMENT 45310	2009-11-12 08:47 PM
I don't think people get the hint regardless of what we say to them. Everyone is walking around with this right of entitlement and air of self importance. It's tempting to teach these people some manners- give them an etiquette lesson- but I think the best thing to do is to take the high road and let management of the establishment deal with it. If they do not, tell them you are taking your business elsewhere. Your dollar speaks louder than anything else.
ALLEGRO805	2009-11-12 11:37 PM
I find comment 45310 such a strange, yet typical, Californian-passive-aggressive approach. Let the management handle it? There's no need to be rude, but when and why did we get to a point where we can't calmly, directly, and honestly communicate with our fellow community members?
COMMENT 45317	2009-11-13 12:58 AM
Allegro- To each his own. Life is too short to deal with time wasting morons. I have much better things to do than color my day with negativity. Don't forget what goes around comes around. So in reality we don't have to do anything. Everyone will get their comeupents (sp?) in time.--- 45310
FRESHPAVEMENT	2009-11-13 07:28 AM
Thank you Craig, you did the right thing by calling her on her inconsiderate actions. A few years ago I bought a phone jammer - about the size of a pack of cigarettes. Only used it a few times in some similar situations. It works! http://www.phonejammer.com/home.php
COMMENT 45347	2009-11-13 09:26 AM
I don't think you had the right to expect a quiet time in a coffee shop. She had the same right to talk on the phone as you did to sit there and read. You could have got up and moved. By choosing to confront her on it, you let your wishes be known. But then calling her an epithet, and a sexist one at that, was out of bounds.
COMMENT 45359	2009-11-13 10:06 AM
In reading the Edhat Comments Policy I was disappointed to find that you do not prevent commenters from recommending unlawful activities. Phone jamming in the US is prohibited by the FCC. -FYI Freshpavement: punishable by fines and/or imprisonment.
COMMENT 45365	2009-11-13 11:01 AM
YA tenoreleven was subtle i got it right away!!! karl
KKG	2009-11-14 08:27 AM
Wow! I'm sorry I missed that scene! Good for you, Craig!
ANDY	2009-11-14 09:48 AM
Good for you Craig... My kind of guy. I would have done the same. I owe you a cup of coffee for this one.
AUNTIELALA	2009-11-16 03:09 AM
I don't feel so bad now about my gesticulating wildly to a young person in the library last week, to turn down the pounding music coming out of her headphones...The reaction to this event at the coffee house is an indication that we need to figure out some kind of expectations for cell phone etiquette. For some reason, even under the best of circumstances, some kind of inattention to surroundings happens when you get on a cell phone, the rest of the world gets tuned out and you forget there are others around...So go outside, or keep your voice down, or look around-are people glaring at you? Craig let himself get too upset, and was, in the end, just as rude. Nevertheless, it needs to be discussed. Marty Blum had nothing to do with it!