Subscriber Comments for
Montecito Fire Pension

Comments in order of when they were received | (reverse order)

COMMENT 337933	2012-11-01 12:28 PM
I'm generally against funding any sort of tax plan to help unions. Their deals are ridiculous. Guaranteed returns (you and I guarantee them with our tax money) and unsustainable in the current climate. What's the plan then? Restructure? Be reasonable? Heck no. It's tax more! The sad part is the sheeple continue to vote for the person supported by the teachers, fire, police and public service (as if they are civic minded). What's really happening is the teachers, fire, police et al are asking you to vote for the easy person for them to negotiate with. Meaning, tax you more to fund their outrageous positions. So long as CA continues to make this mistake, we are in for more bad days.
COMMENT 337938	2012-11-01 12:38 PM
Its unbelievable how much we pay our firefighters in this area. The Montecito chief makes close to 300k a year. The avg firefighter in SB is pulling in $150k... I was a firefighter. Nothing about that job is worth that much money. Nothing. Its simply not that challenging of a position or, frankly that valuable or does it require a high level of intelligence. In fact, most firefighters with brains get so bored in the position that they quit to pursue other professions. Not to mention that you could hire the very best in the trade for 80-100k a year and have 10000 applicants tomorrow. Did you know that in most place in the US firefighters are volunteer? Here we pay them more than Dr's. What a joke. No firefighter or Captain is worth that much money.
COMMENT 337958	2012-11-01 01:10 PM
I don't think most firefighters are volunteer.
COMMENT 337974	2012-11-01 01:39 PM
Agree with comment # 938. the unions have taken control of the goverment and when that happens, you get these overly generous self fullfilling segments. bad. they get guaranteed pensions, but who is looking out for me? I did not sign up to pay them that much. i have to make my own wage and pay for 100% of my own benefits.
COMMENT 337977	2012-11-01 01:46 PM
I don't even think their base pay (like most public employee jobs) is outrageous. The problem is the minimum staffing requirements negotiated coupled with limited hiring (or furlough days) creates overtime. Many many crazy stories of nurses and dentists and I'd guess fire and police tacking on overtime to significantly jack up with real pay from $70-80/yr to over $200K. Their pensions aren't based on their supposed pay. It's on their actual, which is ridiculous. People work the system. They aren't bad. They just take advantage of the system like their bosses and others did before. No reform, just crazy pay and resultant pensions with you and I footing the bill for their whole life.
COMMENT 338010	2012-11-01 02:37 PM
Yeah, let's pay firefighters like McDonalds workers. That sounds all good until it's your house on fire and the minimum wage firefighters take a coffee break instead of putting out the house, or watch it burn because you didn't pay your fee. Why should they put their necks on the line for your crummy little digs? Union haters are just jealous that someone is making more than them, what with their private sector job paying in the low 20's and no bennies, no vacation, no nothing except a hassle and threats that if you don't vote for Romney you'll lose your high -paying job cleaning beds and mowing lawns. In other words, you're getting the shaft so everyone else should too. Snivel. Whine. Complain. Moan. Groan. Hey, don't like Government? Move to Somalia.
COMMENT 338051P	2012-11-01 03:42 PM
I lived much of my life in the mid-Atlantic states where 90% of the firefighters are volunteer. Generally only firefighters in the bigger cities are paid employees. Both the paid and the volunteer firefighters get identical training and must meet the same physical and mental qualifications. Usually the towns, cities and counties only supply the equipment and training. The firefighters are responsible for building and maintaining their own firehouses. The system works very well.
COMMENT 338054	2012-11-01 03:47 PM
Funny how a government agency does a press release about how they operate within their budget, and people still complain. So what then? Should we reduce the pay for firefighters? And then you think you will get a tax refund? No. And even if you did, it would be for like 5 bucks. What is a firefighter worth to you?
COMMENT 338088	2012-11-01 04:35 PM
If you look at pretty much any bigger city, county as well as the state of CA you'll note that they ALL are in trouble on this budget issue and employee costs and pensions are a giant driver and it's going to get worse as revenue is just not there. It has nothing to do with who is getting theirs. It has everything to do with a workable solution, which is NOT possible in the current economy. The people of CA need to stop voting for union backers (Dem in general) because they are too beholden to union money and votes. How hard is it to get a favorable deal when the person you are negotiating with depends on you for their future? It's stupid. Factoid: Did you know that the federal pension cost right now is almost equal to the defense budget everyone is screaming about as too big? But not a peep on that!
COMMENT 338010	2012-11-01 04:40 PM
051P- That's because you were living in a low fire zone, with the houses a mile apart, and therefore some local do-gooders could handle it. They must have had a lot of time on their hands being volunteers with all that training time required of them on top of their day job. We live here in Santa Barbara, in Southern California on the South-facing edge of the Santa Ynez Mountain Range with steep hillsides, heavy underbrush, dense development, way higher temperatures, and a lot of money in real estate. I want pros and thankfully we have them here. I've survived three fires in this area and am glad to pay these guys a lot cuz they do a lot when it counts. Volunteers sounds good if you're a tightwad and don't care about the outcome.
COMMENT 338096	2012-11-01 04:43 PM
Let's be realistic here- I am ALL FOR paying public safety personnel whatever the going wage is for surrounding jurisdictions- That makes it a BALANCE... That being said, Montecito FD is totally out of line with what other fire departments pay, and they only go on a FRACTION of the calls that other departments in SB County and Ventura County respond to... There are also one of the VERY FEW agencies that pay for medical retirement. I have a friend who is recently (4 yrs ago) retired out of Santa Barbara FD, and he's paying $14K per year for medical insurance for him and his wife. He is 61 and she is 57... Montecito's dance card needs to be PUNCHED....
COMMENT 338141P	2012-11-01 05:48 PM
Cap the retirements at $100K. These guys put their lives on the line for you, but the higher-ups are just bilking the safety retirement system.
COMMENT 338156	2012-11-01 06:30 PM
I am not a firefighter, but I grew up in the fire service, and have relatives and many friends who are retired or currently in the fire service. My uncle retired from the fire service on a medical disability after being diagnosed with Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Doctors determined that this was caused from the many years of exposure he received to hazardous materials including smoke, and other carcinogens throughout his career. He has been forced to be on an oxygen tank for the majority of his retired life. When he retired - like this board is doing now, EVERYONE complained that he and his coworkers were overpaid and over pensioned. He now lives on the "exorbitant" CalPERS pension of $3200 per month. Not a pittance, but hardly the kings wages his friends and acquaintances complained he was making when he retired.
COMMENT 338158	2012-11-01 06:36 PM
While 938 claims to have been a firefighter - I'm guessing he was never required to have the training or certifications that are required of our local municipal fire agencies. Municipal firefighters are required to know urban search and rescue skills, confined space rescue, water and trench rescue, medical skills, hazardous materials as well as structural fire responses. If they are lucky enough to live in Santa Barbara County, they must also have wildland fire experience as well. While there are many qualified folks trained to do it, this is not a job that any "Joe" the Plumber can do. BTW - Volunteer fire agencies DO NOT always meet the standards required of municipal agencies. I would love to see the certifications of the Mountain Drive Volunteer Fire Brigade and stack them up against ANY of the local Firefighters.
COMMENT 338158	2012-11-02 06:11 AM
I hope that ex Firefighter ("Joe the Plumber" anyone can be a firefighter #938) didn't leave the fire service to become a high paying executive or attorney - because a little remedial math class is in order…According to mathisfun - dot - com, when you round to tens, hundreds, etc, you replace the removed digits with zero. "For example; 134.9 rounded to tens is 130 because the next digit (4) is less than 5." I just checked, and according to the State Controller's Salary search website, the MFPD Fire Chief made $244,521. Rounding would take that to $244,520 (tens), $244,500 (hundreds), $245,000 (thousands) $240,000 (ten thousands) or $200,000 (hundred thousands) depending on the digit you want to round to. Any way you figure it, it isn't rounded to $300,000. I am not debating that the Fire Chief makes a good salary, but this exaggeration is much like a politician hoping no one will fact check their comments.
COMMENT 338156	2012-11-02 06:52 AM
Hmm…since you mentioned math, $244,521 works out to hourly rate of roughly $118 per hour. Last time I had my computer worked on I had to pay $150 per hour. I have to say, I'm OK with the CEO of a well run fire agency making at least the same hourly rate as the geeksquad...So using 938's numbers, if a FF makes $80-100K that works out to about $38-$48 per hour. It makes sense that for each promotion in rank, their salary will go up to accommodate the additional responsibility - ESPECIALLY that of the top ranking official. I'm OK with those who risk their lives to save my home, or the life of my family with making the same or higher hourly wage that I pay my hair dresser, or my mechanic.
COMMENT 338267	2012-11-02 07:00 AM
Yeah all the annual salary stuff sounds fine but here's the thing. The guy will get a pension at 55 (?) of about $200K a year for the rest of his life. He is doing ZERO for that. Meaning that you and I, the taxpayers, get ZERO return on our tax monies paid to fund that for the rest of his life. Dude will probably live to 80 and would have gotten paid $5 million dollars doing absolutely NOTHING. He's just one guy. Add in all the other guys and you see OUR problem.
COMMENT 338158	2012-11-02 07:36 AM
UCLA - 1st - if they are in the CalPERS system they receive a max of 90% of their salary IF they've worked 30 years (assuming th 3% @ 55 formula). I don't believe you understand how CalPERS works. The taxpayers aren't paying for his pension when he retires. His pension was funded by the contributions that were made by the taxpayer while he WAS working. Depending on their contract, portions of these contributions may have also been made by the employee himself. CalPERS - NOT the agency and not the taxpayer - pays his pension when he retires. 30 plus years of service in a high risk hazardous environment should count toward something. While he may live to 80+ I personally don't want an 80 y/o year old running into a burning building to carry me out. Unfortunatly for the human body, at some point, age does compromise the ability to do the job to the level of expertise and competency we expect.
COMMENT 338303P	2012-11-02 08:34 AM
As reported by Barney Brantingham in the Indie last week, the Montecito FD pays somewhere around $900,000 a year in pensions to the last four MFD retired captains. Ridiculous
COMMENT 338305	2012-11-02 08:36 AM
Two types of pensions: 1. DEFINED BENEFITS: Guaranteed fixed payments no matter if money is available or not - increase taxes or borrow money to pay for these eventual defined benefits when a person retires. Present dollars get allocated for past services. Eventual costs unknown and carries huge unfunded liabilities 2. DEFINED CONTRIBUTIONS: Guaranteed fixed payments in the present to present employees who invest this money themselves for whatever level of retirement they want to achieve. No later make-up payments. Present dollars going for present services. Presents costs known and budgeted carrying no unknown future liabilities for the providers. Public employees receive Plan 1 and it is now bankrupting up with these unfunded liabilities that have accrued over years of Democratic mismanagement in Sacramento and local agency boards. Private industry has converted primarily to Plan 2- (401K) and self-employed use various self-funded IRA's.
COMMENT 338158	2012-11-02 09:09 AM
Barney's article was inaccurate. MFD does NOT pay the pensions of the four retired fire chiefs. PERIOD. Defined benefits to CalPERS retirees are NOT being paid by the taxpayer when they leave/retire. They are paid by CalPERS. While the solvency of CalPERS may be questioned by some, they are the nation's LARGEST public pension fund with assets totaling $238.4 billion as of August 31, 2012. If THEY crash - there are NATIONAL crashes happening that far surpass what happened in 2008. When a CalPERS participant retires, their retirement checks are NOT by the agency they worked for. I know the facts. If you don't believe me, contact CalPERS and ask for yourself.
COMMENT 338405P	2012-11-02 11:10 AM
I fully support our firefighters. They do a great job. And I want to make sure they receive the benefits they were promised. So it is important to get this straight. While CalPers may pay the pensions of the retired chief's - and all other retirees, it is paid for by a combination of assessment on the current employees. I'm not sure what it is in Montecito, but in Santa Barbara - where they make the information easily accessible on their website, it is 29.113% of salary - so for every $1000 in salary the City pays CalPers $291 as the employers contribution - the employees contribution is supposed to be 9%, but different jurisdictions pay this as additional compensation to the employee. Montecito did that until this year, now they pay 4.5% and the employee pays 4.5%. So add another $45/$1000 the district pays to CalPers. In addition, CalPers can make additional assessments on the employers to make up for any deficit. This is what has been happening around California. And they charge interest on that money. Which is why the district "saved" money by borrowing $3.5 million money at a lower interset rate. Given that CalPers now works on an investment income assumption of something like 7.5% and their acutal investment income is something like under 1%. We can all expect that there will be another assessment - that the Montecito District will have to pay from current tax revenues (or borrow more money in the future). So yes, Barney was right, the district - and district taxpayers do pay the bill for these retirees. Also, Montecito does not put any cap on retiree health benefits, even though they pay into Medicare for their employees over 65. Again, from the City of Santa Barbara's website - there is a $318.50/month maximum until age 65 when Medicare takes over. No wonder there is an additional $8.8 million unfunded liability for retiree health care in Montecito. To find all of this go to : http://www.santabarbaraca.gov/Government/Jobs/MOU/ and at the bottom of the page is a file called "Compensation Matrix"
COMMENT 338415	2012-11-02 11:23 AM
I spent 11 years as a volunteer firefigher in SB County, and the last 13 as a paid firefighter. 1: Both are professional firefighters. 90% of the country is covered by professional, passionate volunteers. 2: I train 10 fold as a paid firefighter compared to how much I trained as a volunteer. Simple economics of time. It is impossible to train enough to meet federal or state standards, when doing it as a volunteer. 3: CalPers pays retirees once they are no longer employed, not the employer. CalPers does not allow overtime, vacation, sick, holiday, comp time, or any other "benefit" to be included in the final compensation. CalPers allows only the base salary. There are other pension systems that do include various parts of those. 4: Most public safety personnel will get no social security because they have been paying into CalPers instead.
COMMENT 338415	2012-11-02 03:27 PM
Continued... 5: Unlike the recent Independent comment that relates Montecito to Bell, Southgate, Vernon and Maywood, Montecito operates in the black. They are likely one of the few agencies that pays cash for capital purchases. Most agencies finance, or worse - lease their fire engines. Montecito has saved the $8.5 million in order to build a new station. No mortgage. 6: Montecito does provide post retirement medical benefits. Accordingt to discussion during the last board meeting they are pre-funding the whole thing. It will be fully PRE-FUNDED in 2018. What other businesses, let alone government agencies, are that fiscally responsible?
COMMENT 338158	2012-11-02 05:23 PM
Do other fire agencies post their financial details on their websites? I haven't seen much more than salary ranges if anything before. As a point of reference, in the similar demographic of Beverly Hills - their Fire Chief has a salary range of $239,652 - $316,944.
COMMENT 338158	2012-11-03 06:16 AM
No, Barney was wrong - Barney surmises that the MFD is paying the 4 retired Chief's entire pension at $900K + assuming they are all making over $200K per year (which is also incorrect.) FYI - MFD has their salary schedule and MOU's "easily accessible on their website" as well. According to CalPERS, the Funded Status of Retirement Plans by Member Category for Public Agencies was at 102% in 2007. Of course it dropped during the crash - but it in 2010 it was already bouncing back up. As 528 said, MFD is one of the FEW agencies who actually pays cash for its facilities and equipment AND is pre-funding their retiree's post retirement benefits. 3 MFD Board candidates (Powell, Sinser and Keller) along with the "Montecito Ag. Foundation" lawsuit, have manufactured this issue of broken MFD finances. Rumer is Powell is using the same "advisor" as the MAF. Who do those candidates they REALLY work for? MFD isn't broken. But it will be if those 3 get in and dismantle it...

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